[DerekQ]

Moving from permanent to contractor.

I made the jump 5 years ago and have worked for a number of companies since, on 6-12 month contracts. The money has jumped each time, such that I’m on what I consider to be silly money now for the job I do — Ireland, not US.

The work is always interesting for at least 6 months and I learn a ton of new stuff with every contract, much of which I use when building my own products (Downtime between contracts).

Every aspect of contracting is better than being permanent: the ability to jump ship quickly without affecting my hireability, the exposure to so many different technologies and different ways of doing things, the constant freshness of new things and new people, the ideas that come with seeing how different teams create and build different software, the ease with which you can step into new contracts (often one 30 minute interview as opposed to multipel interviews tests and take home projects for perm roles), and of course the money.

In terms of learning, each contract is like spending 3 years in a permie job, and I’ve had 7 in the past 5 years.

[BerislavLopac]

I've been contracting for two years now, and I agree with the majority of what you said. (UK here)

However, I've recently started considering returning to permanent, primarily for one reason. At the age of 50, half of which has been in a software development career, I find being a code-monkey -- even a senior one -- quite unsatisfying. I would like to return to leadership roles I had while I was permanent, but they are nearly impossible to find as contracts.

[DerekQ]

This is very true. Management roles tend to be kept in-house.

[gadders]

If you have the experience there are plenty of project management contract roles.

[barrow-rider]

Contract PM roles tend to be axe-men -- you're there to kick people and crack whips because you're not part of the org and don't have to worry about future interactions or consequences. Also makes it easy to shoehorn in new ideas and break out of groupthink, which is necessary for big orgs, IMO.

Plus you're gone when the project or milestone is completed, instead of having to worry about finding another role or laying you off.

[gadders]

I've been doing it for 10 years now, and that hasn't really been my experience. Sometimes you might have to push, but you should be doing that as a permanent PM anyway.

You can sometimes have to leave when the project is completed, but more often than not they have a new project kicking off.

[dkvochkin]

Hi, for someone who is interested in starting contracting in UK, what should one know about taxes? Did you have to create a limited company? Could you please advise Thank you.

[gtsteve]

You don't have to make a limited company but it might be necessary for some contracts. You might also have to carry insurance. An umbralla company might also be appropriate for you, especially if you're not 100% sure. It has been a few years since I quit contracting (to start my own company) so some of this stuff might be old.

Definitely read about IR35 and how it might affect you.

In all cases, an accountant can answer these questions for you, even if you're not sure you want to commit.

[latchkey]

I concur. Consulting works for some people. Myself included.

Two years ago, I went one step further and moved from SF Bay area to Saigon, Vietnam. I've had a variety of tech jobs while here, but I am currently consulting for two primarily US based companies.

My expenses are almost nil (compared with before) and I live a very minimal lifestyle (own and purchase very little). I plan on going nomadic in the next couple months (I've never been technically homeless) and driving a motorbike around Vietnam, Cambodia and wherever else I want. I can work during the week and travel on the weekends.

I'm so much happier with my life. I was doing it wrong before.

[mylons]

what were the first few concrete steps you took to make this happen? did you just start cold emailing?

[latchkey]

Short version of the story...

I started a business in SF that brought me to Saigon, Hanoi and Da Nang (3 separate trips). I fell in love with the country and told everyone I'd move there someday. A year later, I quit. Immediately started searching for jobs in Saigon online and through contacts. Found a company through some mutual friends who hired me to come over and teach them about agile (I'm an ex-pivot). Got rid of everything I owned... Moved... haven't looked back.

Prior to my current consulting work, I randomly met a guy in a coffeshop in my apartment building who had a bitcoin book. I'm into crypto. Started talking, got invited to help install some litecoin asic machines for a new operation they were running just outside of Saigon. Became cto. Grew that to 1500 machines in two data centers (~5MW of power), ran that for 8 months until they pulled everything out of Vietnam (longer story).

It has been a very interesting couple of years.

[christophilus]

I'd be interested in hearing from some US-based contractors who feel the same. The thing that has stopped me going down that road is the insane health insurance costs here.

[0x445442]

Yeah, contracting is very tough if you're responsible for a familiy's welfare. I did it for a few years, 2008 - 2011. But back then HSAs were quite reasonable. With a wife in kids I can only imagine what premiums are now days. However, when the kids leave I'll seriously consider going back to contracting.

One other thing I found out was to stay away from the "butts in seats" contract. That's often the model these contracting houses (middlemen) use so, in essence, you're the same as an employee with non of the benefits. It can still be good to go through one of these companies but make sure and tell them that if you're work is blocked because the customer is dragging their feet on requirements or the like, you reserve the right to work on other contracts. Don't let them bill you out at 40h per week if there's not 40h per week of work.

[chrisweekly]

I'm in the fortunate situation of having a wife whose traditional employment includes good health care benefits for the family, leaving me free to focus on cash.

[wmeredith]

Add the cost of paying for your health insurance into your rates. A full time employer would be calculating it into compensation all the same.

[sakopov]

I was a contractor for 4 years before going back to perm mainly because of health insurance costs (I'm in the US). One of the troubles I had switching back to perm is that my future employer looked at my resume and saw me as a "hopper" since most of my contacts were 6 months to a year long. Luckily I had a friend already working at the company that put in a good word for me. But this experience made me think twice about doing contracting again. This is really the only negative thing about contacting I've encountered. It's a great way to be introduced to a variety of different environments and get a large bump in pay.

[alexhutcheson]

On your resume, you can list the name of your contracting "company", even if it's just "Sakopov Software Consulting", and consolidate all the client work into that entry, rather than separate resume entries for each contract. That mitigates the "hopper" perception and also gives the reader less noise to process. Obviously you'd still want to list recognizable client names prominently if possible.

[kstenerud]

I made the jump to contracting 2 years ago and it was an unmitigated disaster. Clients would change course and drop me, leaving me without a revenue stream. I was always playing catch-up, and had actual work less than half of the time, the rest consumed with trying to drum up more business. I read a bunch of consulting books, which all said the same thing: Get satisfied customers and leverage them to expand. But that presents a bit of a chicken and egg problem while your finances sink dangerously low.

If it works for you, great, but there's a lot more to it than people in the business will say.

[dolguldur]

Thanks for sharing that! How did you transition to contracting?

[bshimmin]

I spent about three years contracting, and the way I started was to ask the company I was a permanent employee at (who routinely hired contractors) if they would like to hire me as a contractor instead of as a perm. They said "OK" and so I quit as a perm and restarted as a contractor (I actually also managed to negotiate a four day week and one of the four days at home, back when remote working was much less of a thing, for effectively about twice the money - man, I really knocked that negotiation out of the park, in retrospect); I spent about three months there before moving onto another contracting gig, which I think I got through a recruiter. I know a few other people who have done exactly the same thing as their initial contract.

Derek has mentioned basically all of the positives of contracting - the downsides are that shorter contracts (three months, or anything less) tend to be either quite dull (very routine work that nobody else has the time for) or unpleasantly intensive (desperately trying to ship a disaster); in some organisations you will be treated as "just another bloody contractor" by the perms, who will know you make more money than they do and hate you for it; you may get less responsibility than you would have as a perm, or generally "less say"; and if you end up contracting for the sort of company that you'd hate working for as a perm, it will be just as bad as a contractor, except you'll probably care even less for them because you will know that you can quit very easily, which is, itself, a bit demotivating.

I transitioned from contracting to running my own consultancy, which is much harder work, much more stressful, and with a lot more risk, but quite a bit more rewarding (for me personally - definitely not something I'd recommend to everyone).

[m3at]

I'm interested as well, but I wonder, how early can you start (career experience wise or age wise)? I'm happy to email you if it's fine and requires a longer answer

[bshimmin]

I don't think you can meaningfully call yourself a "consultant" without having at least a handful of years of industry experience; I think you can probably get started as a contractor just a few years into your career (I personally wouldn't hire someone starting out from scratch as a contractor, though perhaps other people would).

Emails always gladly received!

[BerislavLopac]

Where are you located? I'm quite interested in transitioning to a consultancy, but I've always had trouble doing selling. Any hints you could share?

[bshimmin]

Hey, feel free to drop me an email to have a chat - there's an address in the web page linked from my profile.

[DerekQ]

Contracting in Ireland and in the UK is an easy transition as most contracts are run through agencies, so you don’t have to network or go looking for clients like you might have to do in the US. A simple start point was to approach agencies who had active contract roles in the same way you would for permanent roles.

Starting a new contract is just like starting a new permanent job — hand in your one month’s notice and move on. Though, I tend to just quit, take a couple of months off, and then find the next contract, but most contractors move directly into other contracts with no down time.

[chrisper]

Could you maybe name such an agency or at least what they are called?

[DerekQ]

Every IT recruitment agency in Dublin places contractors as well as permanent. You'll find them all listed on IrishJobs.ie. Search for .net, c#, java, and filter for contract roles.

(Stay well clear of Computer Futures. They have a terrible rep in Ireland and in the UK.)

[passiveincomelg]

Hays, Montash, People Source Consulting, GCS Recruitment Specialists, Glocomms, Third Republic, Citrus Global, Gulp, iPAXX, Modis Contracting Solutions GmbH, Etengo, Templeton Recruitment, and on and on and on... :)

Hays is a huge one and I've done one contract through them which went very well. They seem to be well organized, know when I'm becoming available and more or less what kind of work I'm looking for.

Computer Futures on the other hand spam me with tons of irrelevant stuff. That is partially my fault however, since a long time ago I submitted a CV to them with lots of keywords that I don't care about any more. Having said that, I recently got an interview through them and the client wanted to hire me. Ultimately it didn't work out, but I don't think they are to blame for that. I certainly did not put them on the blacklist. :)

Some of the other ones are smaller agencies from the UK and Ireland, where I am regularly in touch with one or more of their recruiters. You can probably find all of them on LinkedIn. The good recruiters often post new contract opportunities including rates (a nice habit in the UK, still uncommon in Germany).

They all love phone calls, which is a bit annoying, but not the end of the world, IMHO.

[mcdowall]

I've been contracting for 8 years now. I'd recommend CWjobs / ContractRecruit and PurelyIT - just search and refine based on location / skills / required rate.

[Kaius]

I'm also based in Ireland, would you mind giving a range for what you consider 'silly' money? My impression is that Contracting works well at lower salaries but once you move into the higher tax bracket (40%) then the the disadvantages of contracting start to outweigh the benefits as most of the additional income is eaten up by tax.

[golergka]

That does sound like an ideal career path to me – I'm one of those people who gets bored with everything far too quickly. What's your tech stack and how did you make the switch?

[DerekQ]

C#/.Net.

Dev jobs in Ireland are predominantly corporate enterprise software — very few start-ups. This means Java, .Net and front end Javascript roles are most common. I actually landed my first .Net contract after a 10 year career as a C++ developer and learned on the job.

There’s an idea out there that contractors need to be expert or top rung developers, but this is not true. You can learn on the job and usually end up doing so as most companies have unique ways of doing things.

[kestrelhawk]

I'm also in Ireland and I've also found that a majority of jobs are as you say -- Java, .NET and frontend roles. I work primarily with PHP (three years industry experience) but there are only a fraction of positions available for it and so I've been tempted to step in to contracting, especially as the idea of working more independently really appeals to me.

I have the same assumption in that I've always seen it as a pipe-dream at the moment and that I'll need another five years plus and additional languages under my belt before I'm worthy of even considering contracting, so it's refreshing to hear that this is not the case! I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience in making that step to contracting, and how you felt yourself 'ready' for it.

[scarface74]

Despite what you might assume from being on HN, the same is true in the US. Most jobs are corporate enterprises software here to.

[codesternews]

How did you started with contracting?

[godelmachine]

Same question. How did you find your footing with contracting?

[TheArcane]

I work with mobile robotics and machine learning. I wonder if it's too niche for it to enable me to comfortably start contracting instead of jumping from one permanent role to another.

[RealityVoid]

Mobile robotics sounds so cool. But looking around it seems most jobs are concentrated in a couple of locations and the rest of the world seems to be a desert. Just curious where are you located and how is the mobile robotics scene over there?

[TheArcane]

Montreal. I work with autonomous driving currently, but I agree that jobs in my field are restricted to barely half a dozen cities in 4 countries.

[amrx431]

Hi there. Any obvious and non obvious suggestions as to how should one switch from permanent to contractor?

[delaaxe]

How old are you?

[DerekQ]

44