[mostlysilent]

It takes me about 3-4 months of being around someone regularly before I'm able to hold a conversation that's more than direct answers to direct questions. It's impossible to hide pretty well, or at all really.

Everyone I've ever known says something like "you don't talk much, do you" or something equally obvious. I used to wonder if people ask others the obvious "you're fat, aren't you" etc. I've learnt that few people like a strange, mostly silent creature being around long. It's very rare that I'm around anyone long enough for me to get past it and actually make a friend.

I read articles that open with "all it takes is a little conversation". Gee thanks. That's the hardest thing I know, and getting harder the further into being an adult I get.

[djajshgsjja]

I’ve had the same issue, and it’s really tough. I’ve had some success by asking people questions, paying attention to the answers, asking follow up questions, sharing details about myself if relevant. It doesn’t come naturally and I don’t always do it right, but it has allowed me to become friends with some people who I wouldn’t have been friends with otherwise.

[FPGAhacker]

Yeah, basically this. I personally don’t like people asking me a lot of questions, and so for a long time I assumed this was generally true.

Apparently it isn’t. People like to talk about their lives.

I guess my main reason for not liking people asking me questions is how their eyes glaze over and they start fidgeting when I answer. Maybe it’s me. I find it pretty annoying so I give terse answers or deflect in one way or another.

But other people do like personal questions it seems. And I admit, it helps build relationships.

I guess my problem is I just am not that curious about people I’ve just met. It would be pretty rare for me to give a shit about what you do for a living, and so if I ask, it’ll be my eyes glazing over.

But I do make the effort anyway, particularly if I get the feeling that someone is a talker.

[DoofusOfDeath]

I'm no ace at social interactions, so please treat the following as a straw-man theory, but...

I wonder if you (and I) sometimes fail to recognize when the person asking those questions is actually communicating something different (e.g., they want to become more friendly with you). But we fail to recognize that they're using a cultural idiom to do so.

A neuro-psychologist has told me that based on some testing I've had done, there's a decent chance I'd also test positive for Asperger's. And this kind of focusing on the literal without noticing that it pattern-matches a different, idiomatic interpretation would make sense for a person with Asperger's.

It reminds me of that line from the song What a Wonderful World, "I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do They're really saying I love you."

If that's what's really going on, perhaps the number of questions you're getting can seem less onerous?

[pm90]

You're definitely on the right track. Human communication is rarely just about the words that you speak. Your speech intonation, pauses, body language etc. speak volumes. Those that don't understand these things well tend to not "get" what others are trying to tell them via all the non-verbal stuff.

Initially it seemed extremely confusing to me; why would someone ask/tell me something when they meant something different? What did they really mean when they said something? Those questions continue to cause me much anxiety but I am beginning to learn more about these non-verbal communication skills.

It kinda make sense that this is more common with nerds/geeks: we spend an awful lot more time with ourselves and things we like doing rather than socially with peers/friends/relationships. The people who tend to be more social, learn more social skills this way... kind of a chicken and egg problem.

[coldtea]

>Apparently it isn’t. People like to talk about their lives.

Us nerds usually don't, but most people LOVE it.

(And even us, nerds etc, it's until we got a bond/trust with someone. Then you can't stop us from talking either -- e.g. in any sci-fi or tech convention where some nerds are gathered...).

[pm90]

Which annoys the shit out of regular people and is one of the reasons they shun us, I've come to learn.

[mostlysilent]

I've been trying to do this. Even practicing in the mirror, but it doesn't feel the least natural. Like I still don't know the rules or limits. I feel like a bad actor playing a bad part who doesn't know his lines. Everyone else seems to do it without a thought. I used to think everyone just thought stuff up more quickly.

The friends I have came to know talking comes later. Mainly from a situation where we were around each other enough to get past my weird quiet stage.

[chrisdhoover]

As engineers we are capable of fixing this. Feign interest. Learn small talk. Eventually you’ll hit a point where you are not faking it but very much engaged.

[pm90]

> I used to wonder if people ask others the obvious "you're fat, aren't you" etc.

I think this is mostly because fat-shaming is a thing in many cultures; a very toxic phenomena that has caused much unnecessary anguish.

> I read articles that open with "all it takes is a little conversation". Gee thanks. That's the hardest thing I know, and getting harder the further into being an adult I get.

I have no advice for you, but I really wanted to say: I'm sorry that you've had a life like that.

[sobani]

> Everyone I've ever known says something like "you don't talk much, do you" or something equally obvious. I used to wonder if people ask others the obvious "you're fat, aren't you" etc.

Well if someone is fat I don't have to wonder if they're fat, because I annoy them and missed their hints to get lost, or whether they just lost a loved one and are not in the right mood, or because they're a 'strange' creature.

[coldtea]

>I've learnt that few people like a strange, mostly silent creature being around long. It's very rare that I'm around anyone long enough for me to get past it and actually make a friend.

Well, being a friend is all about communication. If one sits silent, how can the other gauge if they are good friend material?

They could be totally incompatible, a jerk, rude, stupid, etc -- and there's no way to tell otherwise unless they actually engage in speak.

>I read articles that open with "all it takes is a little conversation". Gee thanks. That's the hardest thing I know, and getting harder the further into being an adult I get.

That's the insight though -- the "little" part, i.e. that it shouldn't be viewed as something difficult that one has to get "right".

Just say whatever BS, small talk, etc. Doesn't have to be anything profound or special. It will pick up from there and go on autopilot after a while.

[mostlysilent]

I recognize this, and yeah it's obvious why others find it strange.

I find it difficult to explain. I can fake and cope when rules are known. I can talk where there's shared rules for everyone like an interview or a class, with staff in a store. When it gets to free format, like the lunch break, I don't know the answers any more and have to take time thinking up something to say, so people reasonably move on to more interesting targets. Or just start to find me weird. Put another way, ask me what I want to eat or of the code I just wrote and there's an answer in my head straight away, small talk with strangers gets complete silence in my head. I never seem to recognize body language and signals either. Then it gets difficult, as I have to start thinking hard for what's next. I once thought everyone's that way and just really fast at it.

I've heard enough people describe it in ways that make it sound so easy, like riding a bike not needing any thought. I need to translate it into my native language. I don't think I'm making any sense now, so I'll stop.

Think I may be somewhere on the aspergers, autism or ADHD spectrums, I recognize some of all, but none seem to quite nail it. Looking back a better career choice would have been the military to live mostly under known rules. I can do that.

[jiscariot]

In reading your description, I see significant parallels with my experience...I had never noticed the "rules" perspective. That helped shed some light on things, so thanks for that.

It is apt that you mention the military. I have heard from a few sources that the military is a really effective at teaching people to BS, but mainly due to long periods of sitting around waiting with little to do except goof off or shoot the breeze.

[coldtea]

>I just wrote and there's an answer in my head straight away, small talk with strangers gets complete silence in my head. Maybe imagine that it's you that initiated the talk, and start asking them questions back.

Whatever they say, just follow with something on subject. There's no "correct" answer in small talk.

Even straying off topic is OK -- see it as opening a new "sub-thread".

[dragon96]

I can relate to this description a lot! I find that my mind is very blank whenever around people (from strangers to closer acquaintances), which makes it really hard for me to avoid modes in which the other person asks me question and I feel like I'm filling out a questionnaire verbally.

I've started observing some upward trend over the past 2 months, so maybe I could offer some food for thought that doesn't cue the "Gee thanks" in your head.

- I felt rather apathetic about life for some time. I felt less uncomfortable around people and my mind felt less blank after caring about more things. I don't have a simple answer to "How do you care about things more?", but I can say more if you're interested.

- I feel like an outsider pretty often, which makes it hard to be myself around others. For example, I like to learn math, but I feel too embarrassed to answer that to "What do you like to do for fun?" Now I tell people about the more "acceptable" pasttimes that I've picked up recently, like some tidbits I've learned from cooking + asking for their cooking and taste advice. I don't find these cooking conversations as engrossing as when I can talk to someone else about math, but it's a medium between "don't have any interest in the other person" and "really want to be their best friend".

- I often fall into a state where I see most people around me as "NPCs". A game that helped me shift out of this was people-watching and story-telling. When passing people on sidewalks, I would take an extra second to watch their face and body language and guess what they were thinking or feeling.

- I sometimes come off as nervous, closed-off, or unengaging in conversation. Recording a couple of my conversations + listening to them helped me hear myself from 3rd person, and be more aware of when I interrupted people or when I sounded disengaged. There are a ton of hacks I learned for having more socially-acceptable body language. This helps me feel less nervous, so I spend fewer cycles worrying and a little bit more engaged in the conversation. Examples:

* I tend to not make eye contact because people's stares made me nervous; making eye contact with one of their eyes is much easier than both.

* I talk somewhat quietly and find it hard to raise my volume; I talked from a deeper part of my voice (which incidentally also calms me down).

* I would either cross my arms, put them behind my back, fidget with my hands, fidget with items, or put my hands in my pocket, all of which send a closed-off signal; when I don't have an item to hold, I try to leave my hands at my side and focus on touching my thumbs and index fingers as lightly as possible, which also calms me.

- I found myself pushing off responding to friends on Messenger/text because sometimes I didn't know what to say or because it takes too much effort to think of something to say. I found it helpful to practice responding immediately whenever possible.

- I had to keep reminding myself that even the most socially fluid people probably only click with at most 20% of people, so having "failed interactions" is very acceptable.

Ultimately, I think it's about being less distracted and more alert during conversations. My thoughts wander a fair amount, and I still have a long way to go before I'm fully present in these conversations. Feel free to email me if you want to share some thoughts privately; I'm still figuring this out and could use some other perspectives. :)

[gaius]

If one sits silent, how can the other gauge if they are good friend material?

Watch some of the movies with Jay and Silent Bob to understand this.