Ask HN: Reached rock-bottom low point in my life – how to get back up?

[whysine]

This is the 2nd time in my life that I turn to HN for help. The first time, I already thought I was kind of in a bad shape. But tonight, I reached a new low point. I have been out of a job for a long time. Currently, my only income is from a small remote job that requires no special skills. I can only survive on it, because I moved to a developing country in Southeast Asia. But this is a dead-end. I need to change - everything. I know the best way would be through a job that would allow me to gradually learn new skills. I don't really care that much about pay. I can survive on a few hundred dollars a month. Although I would like to say that I'm willing to do almost anything, I also know my limitations. I previously created some websites on my own using Ruby on Rails. But I'm probably quite far from a 'real' hacker who enjoys coding so much, they do it in their free time as well. For me, programming is just a tool to get what I want. Also, I always struggled a lot with front-end development and would often get frustrated when things didn't work. I never quite gave up on becoming a real developer - however, at the same time, I never had enough motivation to practice on my own until I would have reached a professional level. I believe the only way would if I could receive a lot of guidance. I did think about attending one of those coding bootcamps, but 1st, they are very expensive, and 2nd, they seem to be high-stress environments - and there is my other big weakness, I really don't respond well to stress at all. So, I guess what I'm hoping to find is some sort of coding internship where I could really very slowly grow into the role - without much pressure. I don't know how much sense that makes or if it's even remotely realistic. But I just thought I would give it a shot. If anyone thinks there is a chance that they could use my help, please do let me know. My gmail is [e-mail]. My native language is German.

[r_smart]

The reality is that it sounds like you don't have the skills for the work you want and are chosing to turn your nose up at the work you can get. This obviously isn't sustainable.

You need to get a job. Any job. Preferably the best job you currently qualify for, even if it's not what you want to do for the rest of your life. Once you aren't worrying about how you're going to feed yourself, get some fire in your belly and take the time to learn the skills you need for the job you want. If it's technical, then build something, try to find a few small side hustles. Then start looking for the jobs with your new skills. Since you'll still be working the job you don't love, you can afford to take your time and find somebody who will gamble on you.

You absolutely should not join a coding bootcamp right now. Priority one is to feed yourself. Learn when you're not working. To quote the infamous patio11: Don't end the week with nothing.

[csomar]

SEA is not helping you but letting you down. You only go to SEA when you are making Western World money online or remotely and living there. Move back to your country. See what kind of assistance they are offering you to get back on your feet. Find a local job.

Other advice: Don't get married. Don't ruin your health and be careful especially now. Share a rental. Don't travel back to SEA.

[whysine]

Yes, I've been contemplating this for a long time. Actually, I already went back once already - and ended up here again after just two months. My biggest problem is that I've been out of a job for ages and I don't have much in the way of qualifications and skills. The most likely jobs I could get back home are things like delivery or burger flipping. I know, beggars can't be choosers. In the past, I wouldn't have given such jobs a thought. However, recently, I've been seriously considering it. I guess I got way too lazy.

[mattm]

Unfortunately, going to SEA is figuratively digging yourself into a hole. The longer you stay there, the bigger the hole gets and the more difficult it becomes to climb out.

I have a good friend around your age in your situation and have known others as well. I think what you're experiencing is fairly common because at some level, you realize you're an outsider in the country (even if you have connections with other digital nomads).

I've also been in situations where I've had an abundance of free time and would think "Now I can really focus on things that I want to do" but instead have just frittered it away. Work and a sense of contributing to a greater good is a necessary part of happiness. It also provides structure which can be important as well.

After university I went to Europe for a year. After I came back, I had no money so I worked at Toys R Us for the Christmas season and lived with my parents to save up money while looking for a programming job which I eventually found (first a short term contract and then full time).

I would recommend that you pack up and go home asap. Spending more time in Cambodia is just digging into that hole more. It will only get more difficult to leave later. If you can, stay with family or friends and get a part-time job at the grocery store or something to start giving you some structure and earning some money. With your spare time, look for entry-level development jobs where you'll be able to learn while you work. It sounds like this is the key you've been missing.

I know it sucks having to start over at 35 but it's better to do it now than in another 10 or 15 years. The fact that you've been contemplating going back for a long time now means that really you already know it's the right decision. You're just having trouble committing to it.

[badpun]

Coding, esp. in modern environments (byzantine stacks, code reviews, agile) involves a lot of frustration and can be quite stressful. I think that's the reason it pays so well - it's just a demanding and unpleasant job that most people don't want to be doing unless they're paid very well. If you don't particularly care about money, maybe you could find something easier instead?

[whysine]

That's true. But my problem is - what else can I do? I have no other qualifications. I'm currently doing translations and it's extremely boring. It's just a part-time job and I could never see myself do this full-time. I tried other things, too, but nothing can compare to coding. Although I often got frustrated, there were also many times when finished a day of coding, went to bed and couldn't wait to start again the next morning. I never felt this way with any other job I did. Another comment mentioned customer support. I guess I will give that a try.

[badpun]

I guess there are different kinds of coding jobs. From my experience, very small teams or ideally freelance, when you're not dealing with the general corporate idiocy/security/agile/co-workers ideas on how to code/gigantic legacy codebase/office politics/etc and "only" have to fight technology, can be more peaceful. Also, technology stacks probably differ in terms of sanity, from completely bonkers (like the Hadoop/Big Data I'm currently in) to something fairly logical (like embedded maybe?).

[mattmanser]

It pays so well because there aren't enough developers.

That some developers have managed to screw themselves over by using Byzantine stacks, code reviews and agile is entirely their own fault.

Programming isn't a stressful job, but programmers sure love making their own working environments toxic.

[richardknop]

Most programming is about turning set of chaotic and very poorly defined business requirements into a code. Which usually means you end up with complex code to handle edge cases that were not defined prior to development. Constantly changing business requirements and unreasonably deadlines don't help. End result can be very stressful and not enjoyable. That's why I think there isn't enough developers. Lots of people just don't have nerves to do this job.

[badpun]

In my current company, both the super-shitty the stack (Hadoop) and agile was decided way above the heads of developers. We're just cogs hired to implement the vision of the higher ups, which is to build a "data lake" using "agile teams".

[expertentipp]

-1 refactor this

[expertentipp]

I don’t know where this toxic „relocate to some Asian or other 3rd world shithole and work remotely, it’s cheap there anyway so what can go wrong?” vision comes from. Don’t get lured, folks. Visiting with piles of cash and living in tourist bubble vs. actually working and functioning there are two different universes.

If you are unable to find yourself in Germany, perhaps try one of the souless outsourcing centers in Prague/Wroclaw/Krakow? Close enough to home, brain-numbing tasks, they grant even some relocation lump sum if requested - might be just enough to get the things running...

[duncan-donuts]

I honestly think you should think about this carefully, and that you might want to consider doing something else. If you really think you want to write software I suggest that you find a job doing customer support and work your way towards your goals. I started in support, did qa, and eventually became an engineer.

[whysine]

You're right, I didn't think about that. I would be totally willing to do customer support. Just kind of difficult to find. Upwork rejected my resume last time I tried to sign up. But maybe, I should try and pursue that route.

[hackermailman]

Github hires in Germany for remote support work, doesn't matter you live in SE Asia only matters your authorization to work in DE https://boards.greenhouse.io/github/jobs/1182009

Or just go on any job site: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JfNAbUX_lN9K3MCNHO15... and search for "german" to see all the remote German speaking SaaS support jobs, plenty exist.

[whysine]

Thank you, sir!

[gt2]

> But I'm probably quite far from a 'real' hacker who enjoys coding so much, they do it in their free time as well.

This is fine when you get to a certain level. You don't sound to be at that level yet.

If you can support yourself there, fine, minimize your expenses. If not, get back to your own region for 6 months - 1 year while you level up on your development skills and get a remote job locked in or have some savings. It's hard to learn while under stress, and anything in life has a certain amount of luck to it. Additionally, some of the best developers have trouble finding remote gigs because they don't know how to market themselves. Sounds like you a lacking a little of both so don't beat yourself up, but level up in both areas.

Good luck.

[yixiang]

I was in a similar situation in a kind of reversed way several years ago. I was good at coding, but had no interest in it, since I had started learning it around 8 years before. The passion just wasn't there any more.

But I was struggling financially so I took a freelance gig and turned out I enjoyed it pretty much.

I believe you are pretty screwed if you want to only work on what you are passionate about. Things can stay new and exciting for only so long.

I recommend reading the book So Good They Cannot Ignore You.

[gt2]

> If anyone thinks there is a chance that they could use my help, please do let me know.

A) How much time per day would you honestly put in if someone offered you something?

B) You should be more specific about what kind of development work you can do, and show at least 1 example of past work.

[whysine]

A) I would like to put in as much as I can. I'm pretty sure I could do four hours a day - maybe more.

B) It's old, but it's the only public repo I have. If you want, I can give you access to a private repo on Bitbucket. That one is from last year. I haven't done any coding since. https://github.com/qisine/jobs4ants.com

[seekingcharlie]

Why can you only put in four hours a day?

[abledon]

Move back to your hometown or wherever you have social and family connections. Get a low stress government job that prob pays equal to a dev job for low stress excel and ms word work .

[DrNuke]

Forget coding for now; try and get in shape locally, instead: face real people and interact with them. Customer support is very good, even remotely if you get a gig through HN. Good luck!

[mcarthur_gill]

You should look into Lambda School (https://lambdaschool.com/). You don't have to pay anything up-front and instead agree to share a % of your income once you get a job over $50k. I have no insight into the stress levels of their students, but from everything I've heard about Lambda, it's incredible.

Disclosure: I am not affiliated with Lambda School at all, just really believe in what they're doing and the way they are doing it. @austenallred is the guy to speak with.

[FearNotDaniel]

No, no, no, no, no. The guy's barely functioning, clearly unable to keep his shit together, and your advising him to effectively get himself into debt and thus trap himself into a career he's not even sure he wants? I don't care if you're affiliated or not, I don't care how hipsterish and "disruptive" these Lambda people are, this is really, really terrible advice. There are plenty of ways to learn tech skills online without paying a penny, no need for anyone to start their career indebted to yet another start-up that exists to profit from the gullible and desperate.

[stockkid]

Knowledge is free. There are many other ways to improve programming skills other than being indebted to some for-profit company.

[screye]

Is moving in back with your parents/family not an option. Maybe take that time to develop a skillset and then start a job again.

[petra]

Are you doing all this alone ? Have you tried finding a work/study partner ? It can be good for motivation and against stress.

[snyena]

You could try:

1) Running your own business 2) A marketing job 3) A job with computers at a large corporation that is not coding

[Mick-Jogger]

Just out of curiosity. I am also in SEA and working for a German company. Which country are you located in?

[whysine]

Cambodia

[DocTomoe]

1. Do you have any kind of formal training? 2. Are you willing to relocate back to the DACH region?

[whysine]

No, I don't have any kind of formal training. I would be willing to relocate.

[chefkoch]

How old are you? Could you go to university and are eligable for Bafög? Do have a support network at home?

[whysine]

I'm 35. I could theoretically go to university. But I would first have to study one year to pass the university entrance exam. In any case, I would rather avoid it. If university were a realistic option for me, I probably wouldn't be in the situation I am today.

[cweagans]

University of the People doesn't have an entrance exam, and it's zero tuition.

[whysine]

I'm going to bed now. Thanks again for all the support!

[jamesmawm]

willing to mentor and teach to get a few projects running off the ground. tech stack is production grade django python java redis mq react.