[AndrewWarner]

The problem I see with the Lean Startup is that Eric Ries isn’t actively promoting, defending and explaining it.

On Mixergy, I interview founders who try to make their bones or get attention for their messages by disagreeing with the Lean approach.

Eric doesn’t debate, correct or engage with them. So they get to make statements without anyone credible taking them on.

Listen to my latest interview it’s Rand Fishkin and you’ll see what I mean. He’s not anti-Lean, but he’s disagreeing with it his book to make get attention for his message. With a bit of pushback from me, he admits as much.

Each one of these mini-attacks from accomplished entrepreneurs hurts Lean’s credibility.

Only Eric has the credibility and social grace to disagree and explain in a way that builds up The Lean Startup.

I’d love to see him step into the conversation more. He and pg defined how to run a successful startup more than any two people I know.

We need to hear more from both of them.

[wpietri]

I think the core problem here is (lack of) consulting dollars.

The Agile movement got huge in part because a lot of its proponents could make good money promoting it. E.g., the MLM scheme that is Scrum certification. Or the many consultants, some good and some bad, who made bank teaching it to people. (I did that for a while.) This was also the death of what I think of as "real Agile" because the great bulk of consulting money on offer was selling watered-down Scrum to giant companies who wanted the feeling of change without hard work or actual change.

But there's no money in startup consulting. Startups don't have much money, and startup founders a) think they know things better than everybody else, and b) think they can ignore most of what matters to other businesses. (I'm a former startup founder, so that's not knocking anybody; it's just what's required by circumstance.) I know people who have started great startup-focused consulting businesses, and they've all gone elsewhere because it's impossible to make a living doing it.

From what I know of Ries's consulting it was at places like GE [1]. GE is definitely not a startup, but really wanted to be innovative and presumably paid him a bundle. And now he's moved on to the Long Term Stock Exchange. [2] This all strikes me as reasonable. He did his bit and set the ideas free into the world. Although I'd love it if he spent more time promoting the Lean Startup approach, I totally get why he's focused on doing what he wants, not what I want.

As an aside, for those still interested in discussing the topic, Lean Startup Circle still exists and still has an active mailing list. I'd love to see more people there: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/lean-startup-circle

[1] https://www.ge.com/reports/digital-magic-eric-ries-brought-s...

[2] https://ltse.com/team

[owens99]

Hey William. I also think one of the big mistakes is that Eric trademarked Lean Startup. Check out the book, Starfish and the Spider. The way to kill a grassroots movement is to centralize the power and then it dies with the center.

[wpietri]

Hi, Trevor!

I get that concern. But the Agile movement didn't trademark anything and came to regret it as the word got more and more watered down. All things considered, I prefer this outcome; at least the term still has meaning. If I had to pick next time, though, it would be making the trademark but building up enough of a community to carry the flame and then handing over the trademark.

[owens99]

Thanks for pointing this out Andrew. I founded Lean Startup Machine, the first training/bootcamp on Lean Startup in 2010 which since held events in over 100 cities around the world.

I like Eric, but I think your comment is very true and it's too bad.

[dasil003]

This is a common pattern with all good ideas. You start with some hard-won ideas and principles that make a lot of sense. The ideas resonate and so they get picked up by a broader and broader set of people. Before long you have second and third tier advocates who are heavy on the Dunning-Kruger effect and short on actual insight. Now you have tons of straw-men for wannabe thought-leaders to rip apart mercilessly.

I don't blame Eric Ries for staying out of this fray, there's little to be gained by battling the tidal wave diluting the core idea.

[pjlegato]

There should be a name for this pattern, so we can easily refer to it in the future. As you say, it's quite common in business.

The Diluted Insight Effect?

[shanebrunette]

Chinese whispers.

[ilamont]

A related issue are some of the other high-profile proponents of Lean are unwilling to acknowledge Lean faults or limitations. Good frameworks are flexible, but a dogmatic approach turns potential converts away.