[mindcrime]

Based on down-votes here, probably the idea that "taxation is theft".

I also generally disapprove of the idea of nation-states in general, don't believe in borders, and think that private organizations (which could include non-profits, worker owned co-ops, etc.) can (and should) fill most of the roles which are currently filled by "government".

Basically, being a Market Anarchist / Voluntaryist puts me at odds which a lot of people.

[DoreenMichele]

Please note I am saying this as a fellow "free spirit" type. It isn't intended to disrespect you per se. I appreciate your participation here. It's just an interesting thought experiment you've injected into the discussion and it's a thought experiment near and dear to my heart and these are some of my thinkings about it.

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Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." IIRC, this was in reply to someone wanting to use his teachings as justification to not pay their taxes.

I'm kind of a hippy tree hugger type. I'm also a former military wife, so I'm a pro military, pro government hippy tree hugger.

The world needs hippy tree huggers. But they are more beneficent when they take the position "I'm not part of the government, so I'm free to live this way in part because we have functioning government." rather than acting like government needs to go.

It is not lost upon me that hippy types only ever exist in secure spaces. You don't find them wandering around in active war zones trying to give people a hug who are pointing a gun in their direction.

There is some story about "Don't remove this wall in the middle of the street unless you understand its exact purpose and are sure it is no longer needed. Do not remove it based on not seeing its use. If you don't see its use, assume that is a blind spot in you, not proof that the wall is doing nothing."

Not to say there isn't room to improve on what we currently have, but I think the "anarchist"/free spirit types are their most helpful when they recognize that freedom is bought with the blood of patriots and disrespecting that fact is inherently problematic.

[magduf]

For good reason: how exactly do you propose to enforce anything if you don't have a government that's allowed to use force? Give everyone a gun and let them shoot anyone they think has wronged them?

[tonyedgecombe]

Yes, I tend to downvote those sort of statements.

[growlist]

> private organizations (which could include non-profits, worker owned co-ops, etc.) can (and should) fill most of the roles which are currently filled by "government"

I completely agree - I'm all for (for example) healthcare that's free at the point of provision and looking after the vulnerable, and think our economies throw off more than enough surplus for us to fund this type of programme without disincentivising ambition - but I don't think a vast monolithic bureaucracy is necessarily the best way to do it. The tragic thing is that in the example of the NHS here in the UK, the left have made the organisation so bloody untouchable that even potentially beneficial reform is blocked - for example I think if we had a nominal charge (£15?) for a GP visit it would go a huge way towards discouraging e.g. the worried well and pensioners visiting their GP for a weekly chat..

[dangerface]

I think most old people goto the doctor because they are old and dying and need a doctor, not because they want a chat with a stranger in a sterile environment.

I also fail to see how charging people for nothing will help solve the problem of the NHS being expensive and not very effective.

Considering we have had a conservative government for the past 8 years I fail to see how this is Labours fault, the only reform conservatives suggest is to sell the NHS to their mate for a fiver, I fail to see how this could be potentially beneficial.

[growlist]

Part of the problem is too much demand, and when something is free people do not respect it - bring in a small charge and it discourages frivolous use. I don't think this is a particularly earth-shattering extreme right wing observation.

I don't want anyone making huge sums out of healthcare either, though lets be honest, Labour didn't exactly do a good job in controlling doctors' salaries, did they?