[valtism]

The autotune you refer to as "janky and fake" is when autotune is used with intention to create that sound as an artistic syle. Autotune is used across most pop (and other) music, but in such a way that that you never realise it is there.

It is similar to special effects. People complain about how bad and fake they look, but this is only for the effects that are bad enough that they are noticible. People don't realise the sheer amount of special effects being used in scenes they never realise they are being used for.

[hyperpallium]

But similarly, it could be used as a "janky and fake" artistic syle. Because no one's ever seen it before, it will look wrong in unexpected ways, and therefore somewhat fascinating.

Stylus noise, fret noise and mp3 compression artefacts are other "mistakes" deliberately introduced.

[sarreph]

You just described T-Pain’s reasoning for using auto tune (he doesn’t actually need it but instead uses it stylistically).

I think you’re onto something here as well about how it may well get adopted as a ‘style’ in someone’s music video.

[kevin_thibedeau]

It is still noticeable in normal performances. You can hear unnatural overtones from autotune used as intended. Even more so when supposed singers use it live and have to stay glued to their mic to isolate any outside noise.

[gpvos]

Interesting! Do you have examples where it is possible to hear these unnatural overtones?

[mattmanser]

Pick up any modern pop record. Some are worse than others, but all are auto tuned.

Just Google worst auto-tune for examples, because it's so common now, most people don't notice it. Here's a list of some examples:

http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop...

Also, if you're not really musical you might have a hard time picking it out. I found that as soon as I learnt an instrument, songs suddenly became layered and I could pick out and distinguish different instruments, and notice mistakes.

[darkerside]

I'm pretty sure many of those examples are purposeful uses of autotune for effect

[gpvos]

I've played piano and sung for most of my life, but I wouldn't have recognized many of these if you hadn't pointed them out, though I do recognize many structures and mistakes in music.

It seems to be more about recognizing the small glitches, rather than something involving overtones, which I would really have liked to learn more about how to recognize them. I have long found that autotuned singing sounds a bit more "metallic" to me.

Thanks anyway, the sound samples are useful in recognizing it better.

[newhere420]

I don't think T-Pain is trying to sneak autotune past anyone...

[kevin_thibedeau]

It's easier to hear in modern country music because the vocals are still trying to sound natural. Male singers are more obvious.

[ssijak]

There is nothing "artistic" in overusing autotune. It is just a tool to "mask" that that person can`t really sing at all and is overused in popular/commercial genres where there is an abundance of untalented musicians. I can`t imagine anyone saying that obvious autotuned songs sound good.

[throwaway8879]

I don't understand this attitude at all. So something that doesn't seem artistic to you simply isn't artistic for anybody else because you decided that it isn't? Autotune is just another processing like reverb, delay, whatever. You think they didn't use any processing on Beatles' records? You think non-autotuned singers don't use a TC-helicon or whatever when they're performing live?

Autotuned songs can sound good, just as non-autotuned songs can sound bad. I'm as much a music elitist as anybody, but thinking that you have the one true objective idea of what music sounds good or bad is just childish.

[mattmanser]

There's a difference between using it deliberately and using it because the singer can't sing.

I wonder if in 20 years time it will sound incredibly dated, much like 80s synths do today.

I'm not particularly against auto tune and ultimately most people don't even notice it being used, but I do sort of understand where the GP is coming from.

If your idol can't actually sing, and you saw them live and it's rubbish, wouldn't you feel cheated?

[throwaway8879]

Sure, I agree with you for the most part. Except that if you're going to see one of these autotune singers live with the hope that they're able to sound exactly like the record then you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Would you feel cheated if you found out that the magic show you went to in Vegas was just sleight-of-hand and trickery? :)

I personally dislike it too, but I'm not going to say it's not artistic, because to someone else it might be. People get so caught up and passionate with their art of choice that they sometimes forget that it's all just entertainment in the end. Whether it be Hillary Hahn or some teenager making beats in Ableton and throwing in the stock vocal effect.

About 80s synths, I think a lot of us, or at least I personally associate that cheesy sound with mass-produced digital synths put out by Yamaha, Roland etc. It's all variety and I love it. My dad still has a DX7 and a D-50 that I'm hoping to inherit.

[mattmanser]

A lot of people can't tell that someone's auto-tuned. They're not aware enough.

Like most people wouldn't even realise there's a bass line vs a guitar.

As for 80s synths, in my opinion there are a lot of otherwise great songs that are ruined by those travesties. I totally appreciate they were breaking new ground, but remastering some of those tracks with modern synths would make the songs sound a lot better.

[darkerside]

The Killers, and many other tremendously popular (and talented) bands that have intentionally replicated the overproduced 80s sound, would like a word with you

[dzjkb]

>I can't imagine anyone saying that obvious autotuned songs sound good.

Well just look at the status quo of popular rap music then - tons of artists are aiming for the obvious autotune style and tons of people are listening to it (so I assume they think it sounds good). I'm not sure what you mean by "artistic", but it's definitely a sound people try to achieve on purpose in their music, so I think it does deserve some recognition as "art".

[Krakadero]

T-Pain is a great singer, and I'm pretty sure he's the first person a lot of people think about when they think about autotune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIjXUg1s5gc

[puranjay]

Let me introduce you to Bon Iver's "22, A Million"

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN61gg9VNXPomdZu0UY_w...

[apengwin]

Kanye West used autotune to great effect in 808s and Heartbreak, one of the seminal albums of this century

[deadbeef404]

Very true about using it to great effect in 808s and Heartbreak! I remember hearing one of those tracks and finding it fairly nice to listen to. Then I heard him live on SNL and his singing voice was close to non-existent.

[Jaruzel]

No-one ever says Cher can't sing, but her 'Believe' song also uses Autotune in a very distinct way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Uu3kCEEc98