[_iyig]

I don’t agree that all criticism of misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy is driven by “deeply-rooted white supremacy.”

I would fire anyone who held such a belief, as I would not trust them around female, gay, or ex-Muslim co-workers.

[bodas]

A straw man would probably not be a very effective employee anyway.

[_iyig]

If you feel I’ve misunderstood your comment, or that you did not fully articulate your point, please feel free to elaborate. I’m not overly swayed or impressed by drive-by disparagement.

[bodas]

> misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality or apostasy

It is a caricature. You have been reading the internet too much and spent too little time talking to actual Muslim people. However, if you find out that one of your employees is a member of the taliban, feel free to fire him.

[_iyig]

There are 13 Muslim-majority countries where apostasy is punishable by death, including Malaysia, Iran, Nigeria, the UAE, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan only imposes the death sentence for blasphemy.

The UK has many sharia courts which act as marriage and divorce authorities, where women often have far fewer rights than men. (This sounds hysterical and far-right-ish, but it’s true)

I’ve heard horror stories of ex-Muslims in the US who were kidnapped and physically abused by their family when they tried to leave Islam.

Between mass-rape attacks in Germany, the many, many grooming gangs in the UK, and the latest sexual assault statistics from Sweden, I think it’s fair to take a skeptical eye towards mainstream Islamic male culture. Moderate and reformist Muslims in the West, for context, comprise a small majority of the faithful.

The Christian and Jewish faiths have reformed and lightened up with the liberalization of Western society. I think it’s fair to expect and allow adherents to the Islamic faith to walk a similar path.

EDIT: And for the record, I get along great with my Muslim co-workers. Please stop moving goalposts; to reiterate, your premise was that criticism of Islam's human rights record is driven by deep-rooted white supremacy.

[ionised]

> The UK has many sharia courts which act as marriage and divorce authorities, where women often have far fewer rights than men. (This sounds hysterical and far-right-ish, but it’s true)

Point out one of these Sharia courts on Google maps please.

[_iyig]

Five seconds in Google Maps:

Islamic Sharia Council 34 Francis Rd, London E10 6PW, UK [phone] https://goo.gl/maps/uVXqgkMMTYx

[_iyig]

Also, new WSJ piece out today with a travelogue through a Islamicized UK town, including Sharia courts and ubiquitous face veiling:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-visit-to-islamic-england-1535...

[bodas]

1/4 of your fellow humans are Muslim, 1.8 billion people. You are going to need at least a few hundred million more examples.

[_iyig]

Sure. Pew Research, a widely-respected nonpartisan fact tank, has conducted several studies in this area. They found that roughly 70% of Muslims worldwide support Sharia as the law of the land, coming out to just over 1.2 billion people.

I don't have to tell you that for women, gay people, and ex-Muslims, this isn't great news. Sometimes facts like these can be uncomfortable, but if we ignore them, things don't improve and real people suffer.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/muslims-and-...

[GW150914]

How was the human rights record in Malaysia before Islam? How do the countries you listed compare in terms of women’s rights with their non-Islamic neighbors? Pakistan is a rough part of town for women, but isn’t India dealing with their own women’s rights issues around rape, and honor killing? How much of what you’ve described is a religious issue, versus cultural or socioeconomic?

Disclaimer: I’m not Muslim, or from the regions described.

[_iyig]

That's a great question. I would hope that if it ever came up in a work context, one hypothesis would not automatically be assumed without an open and honest and conversation.

[postnihilism]

Equating 'misogynistic divorce laws, violence against “immodest” women, and application of the death penalty for homosexuality' with an entire religion of 1.6 billion people is the issue, not criticism of a specific country's human rights record. You should not come to work and rail against a major world religion...

[_iyig]

The original point of argument was “Criticism of Islam's human rights record.“ Not “railing against Islam.” Was anything unclear about this?

[postnihilism]

How does this play out at work?

You saddle up to a co-worker at the water cooler. Hi Yasir (he's from the Bay Area), you know your religion has a terrible record of human rights? Yeah? Cool, see you at the standup in 30 minutes.

[chimpburger]

Yes that's how it plays out. A lot of Muslims (and ex-Muslims) desperately want to reform that religion. They often emigrate to the US to get away from that crap. Go on youtube and search for "ex muslim"

[_iyig]

I think we both agree that's a ridiculous and unrealistic example.

I'm not the type to raise political or religious issues at work, unless it relates to the decision or task at hand. If my company were to consider donating to a conservative Islamic charity for International Women's Day, for example, then I might offer my perspective. Otherwise, why start workplace conversations that are likely to be divisive, distracting, and unproductive?