[GW150914]

How was the human rights record in Malaysia before Islam? How do the countries you listed compare in terms of women’s rights with their non-Islamic neighbors? Pakistan is a rough part of town for women, but isn’t India dealing with their own women’s rights issues around rape, and honor killing? How much of what you’ve described is a religious issue, versus cultural or socioeconomic?

Disclaimer: I’m not Muslim, or from the regions described.

[_iyig]

That's a great question. I would hope that if it ever came up in a work context, one hypothesis would not automatically be assumed without an open and honest and conversation.

[GW150914]

It’s also probably the kind of thing you need to know a lot about before you start accusing a religion which represents a sizable fraction of the world, and which has many existing sects and interpretations, of being a causative agent in so many ills. An open and honest discussion is fine, but when one person has a strong position staked out without having done the requisite “homework” it’s not unrealistic that people will draw conclusions about their motives. Someone who has wondered about the relationship between Islam and women’s rights, modesty and so forth, and then taken the time to learn about where Islam vs. local pre-Islamic traditions stand on the issue might draw conclusions as well. Others, who note the intolerance for gay rights throughout much of Africa, in Islamic, Christian, and other religious frameworks might start to suspect that Islam wasn’t the active ingredient. Someone who noted the appalling history of women’s rights in much of Asia regardless of religious context might do the same.

Such a person would almost certainly be wary of engaging in debate, however open and honest, with someone who came to their strong conclusions in the face of such easily available evidence to the contrary. You also have to remember that some people use the framework of an open and honest discussion to proselytize, or rant. The archetypical bigot who “wants a fair debate about immigration” while really just wanting to express their bigotry without getting heat for it is one example. The antisemite who talks in terms of “bankers” and “globalists” is another. It’s unfair, but we all have to share a world with them, and so even when we really want to have an open and honest conversation we have to go that extra mile to prove it in cases like these. Otherwise people who don’t act in good faith can effectively mount a DOS on our time and attention through our goodwill.

Edit: Downvotes in lieu of something to say is something I’m becoming depressingly familiar with here. I can see why some people revert to low-effort posting when it’s going to be met with zero-effort. Oh well, I’m not sure what I expected.

[_iyig]

I know a fair bit about Islam, but I'm always ready with an open mind to hear out different points of view, which is the ultimate topic of this submission. I'm also not even able to downvote, so take that as you will.