[ironjunkie]

Interesting take.

There is something to be said about how proud the French are about their culture and language. What would be seen as exaggerated nationalism in other country, seems perfectly acceptable for the French.

I'm wondering if that glowering pride pushes more people to learn French.

[maelito]

I think you're right on the first part, we're proud about some particular aspects of our culture and society (bread, wine, holidays, hospitals). But that doesn't make the french nationalists.

You will never see a flag of France in a garden. Except for the 2 weeks of the world cup or during the terrorist attacks. Politically, we're lost trying to copy the silicon valley and Germany. Most people are convinced today it's better to in a sense dilute the country in the European union.

[justanother]

To me (American by birth, Francophone by grace of dieu), it's more than just baguettes and Eiffel towers. This is the country that frightened Europe to the core by taking the still-bleeding head off of a monarch and setting an example for civil law. The world's leading military power until an unfortunate defeat in 1763 by lucky Brits, without which we'd likely speak French as a first language instead of second.

Or more simply, the most beautiful country I've ever visited, where I can visit a doctor for just 27 euros without insurance, and they'll actually have a personal conversation with me to understand my ailment, instead of the horrific, expensive, and impersonal factory farm that American medicine usually is. A place where "zero tolerance" does not (yet) reign supreme and even the infamously numerous and curmudgeonly bureaucrats can make exceptions for a heartfelt story. Where best friends can get into debates daily that turn into shouting matches, before continuing with the business of being best friends.

La lumière du monde. Never ever change, France. Not like you were going to anyway.

[barry-cotter]

If being proud of your culture and history doesn’t make you a nationalist what does? The fact that French and American nationalism are expressed differently doesn't mean the French aren’t nationalist. Irish nationalism is expressed to an amazing and annoying extent in hatred of the English. Flag waving is not the be all and end all of nationalism.

[watwut]

Being proud does not make you nationalist. The issue with flag waving is the association with expansive military actions, repression of minorities etc. As in, outside sport match situation (where anybody waves flag), flag waving people were and are usually pro expansion, quite hateful and fearful of other ethnic groups, authoritarian etc.

Likely the association in USA is different. But here, when I see flag in backyard, I would expect open or at least above average animosity toward tourist of wrong color. And also expect support for authoritarian anti democratic group.

[chimeracoder]

> The issue with flag waving is the association with expansive military actions, repression of minorities etc. As in, outside sport match situation (where anybody waves flag), flag waving people were and are usually pro expansion, quite hateful and fearful of other ethnic groups, authoritarian etc.

France has proven itself to be more than capable of that ugly side of nationalism, whether or not they are waving flags.

[watwut]

The point here is that when/if it turns ugly, perpetrators will wave flag. Hence association of open flag waving with "the ugly stuff is about to happen in the open and for real".

[chimeracoder]

> The point here is that when/if it turns ugly, perpetrators will wave flag.

It already is ugly, and in plain sight. That's my point: people who aren't themselves directly affected by it don't notice it or dismiss it because it doesn't look like the jingoistic, flag-waving nationalism that they think of, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

[lloeki]

> bread, wine, holidays, hospitals

Those are indeed part of our culture yet what I care the most in our heritage are the values underpinning our culture: humanism, Enlightenment, scientists, authors, and artists who made massive discoveries and progress, the declaration of human rights, abolition of death penalty, the hard stance publicly taken at th UN against the Iraq war and not bending over in front of the US when basically every other country was submissive and mute about it, everyday people becoming members of the Resistance who kept on actively and passively fighting in the shadows against an unfathomable body of hate, laying ground for the foundation of the EU and collaborating towards a more balanced, non-bipolar world...

Those are the values that underpin my pride of France. Unfortunately I witness everything about that being slowly eroded away by a growing feeling of fear and self-interest, and an increasing number of people indulging in the very hate we fought against. Of that I am not proud of being French.

[cm2187]

And diluting the country in the EU is not incompatible with the French culture. The local food specialities or way of life is not really going to be affected by who administers the country. But French as a language, in the long term, has to die if the EU is meant to happen. You can’t run a country with 15 different languages. French will become another Patois!

[forgotpwd16]

Being proud of aspects that tie your country's heritage and wanting them to be preserved actually is nationalism. But this isn't bad. Far from it. Except if you fancy absolute uniformity, cultural nationalism which preserves heritage is a good thing. Right-wing nationalists and supremacy ideologies though which discriminate against anything deviating are inherently flawed.

[mc32]

I think for many Americans it's an inherited artifact from Britishers for whom for a long time French was the lingua franca of aristocracy and the renaissance. It’s been a sort of “aspirational” language in that by proxy it signaled upper class.

[kelsolaar]

Do you have any specific examples? I'm French, lived and travelled in a few countries and I don't see France being much different than any other country with long cultural history in that regard.

[Blindedwino]

The Alliance Française all around the world. I can't think of many other countries that have glorify their own culture internationally, especially in past colonies (like in Vietnam and Cambodia).

[corncob]

The French are hardly the only ones running language and cultural centers abroad. See Portugal's Instituto Camões, Brazil's Centro Cultural Brasileiro, Britain's British Council, France's Alliance Française, Italy's Società Dante Alighieri, Spain's Instituto Cervantes, Germany's Goethe-Institut,and China's Confucius Institute.

[sbmthakur]

They have a considerable presence in India(former British colony) as well. They have 14 centres, all of which are in major cities.

[chimeracoder]

> They have a considerable presence in India(former British colony) as well. They have 14 centres, all of which are in major cities.

India was also colonized by the French. In fact, the French still held onto their colonies in India for several decades after the British left.

[ironjunkie]

Mainly anecdotal but it seems to me that it is a common representation worldwide of the French to be arrogant and very proud of their own culture. I'm trying to not make a judgment here, not that I'm saying it is good or bad.

Anecdotal also, but I work internationally and with a lot of french people. The French groups would be the most vocal to complain about pretty much everything in their host country, claiming they cannot wait to go back to France to taste "Real bread", or "Real wine", etc etc.

[parisienterm]

I'm French and born in Paris, and I find most of French people very impolite (I live more like a Japanese, with the "fear" to disturb order and people), so I don't complain when I am in another country.

But the only country where I could live is Italy, because they have "real food".

I really suffer with the local food when I'm abroad, and as far as I know, all my friends suffer as well. My wife is Russian but lives in France for many years and she has the same reaction with food in other countries (except Italy!). It's not arrogance, it's pain and a feeling of eating dirty things !

[bitwize]

Two words: Académie Française, the governmental body which determines what is official "standard" French, and zealously guards the language against loanwords from other languages in an attempt to preserve a purely French French language.

[ur-whale]

> zealously guards the language

and which everyone in the country blissfully ignores.

[r00fus]

Yeah, the campaign for "courriel" was such a success!