[NiveaGeForce]

Edge is the most resource efficient and respects modern Windows conventions, therefore it has the best, pen, touchscreen, tablet (including share button and stuff) and precision trackpad support. And since it's WinRT/UWP, it can suspends its tab processes, and also itself when minimized or automatically during tablet mode in the background, and during fullscreen it also automatically unhides the taskbar when you hover over it, for better multi-tasking.

It also has nice features such as the set tabs aside session manager that even retains history and session cookies, and it a nice PDF and ePub reader with support for notes and highlighting with the pen, and Cortana integration. Before Edge, I primarily used Firefox and dabbled with Chrome and Vivaldi.

Edge is on both iOS and Android, and no I don't work for MS, I just value proper modern OS integration and battery efficiency, so that I can use my device as intended.

[beagle3]

> Edge is on both iOS and Android,

Something called Edge from Microsoft is available for iOS (where it is a rebranded WebKit) and on Android (where it is a rebranded Blink, IIRC). If you primarily work with Windows 10, Edge makes some sense, otherwise it makes no sense.

On iPhone, by Apple decree, ALL web browsers (including Firefox and Chrome) are rebranded WebKit; However, on Android, Chrome is (mostly) the real chrome and Firefox is (mostly) the real firefox.

> I just value proper modern OS integration and battery efficiency, so that I can use my device as intended.

The only downside to it I see is that you are using Windows 10... I value privacy and control of my devices a little more than 10% of battery efficiency.

[guardian5x]

If you use Edge and like to have it sync with your mobile, it can make sense to use it on iOS or Android i guess, no matter which engine it uses.

[m1sta_]

Edge on Android is faster and smoother than Chrome.

[NiveaGeForce]

> Something called Edge from Microsoft is available for iOS (where it is a rebranded WebKit) and on Android (where it is a rebranded Blink, IIRC).

Why is it a problem that it uses webkit on iOS and Android? Why reinvent the wheel, when those rendering engines are already optimized for those platforms? The thing I care about is that it supports syncing of settings.

> If you primarily work with Windows 10, Edge makes some sense, otherwise it makes no sense.

If you primarily work with Mac OS, Safari makes some sense, otherwise it makes no sense. Why do I never hear that complaint?

Also, Edge on iOS and Android will soon have a built-in adblocker.

> The only downside to it I see is that you are using Windows 10... I value privacy and control of my devices a little more than 10% of battery efficiency.

Have you ever looked at the privacy controls of Windows? Also the battery efficiency is significantly more than 10%, and try find me an as versatile and user friendly alternative OS for pen capable 2-in-1s, that has better privacy controls.

[beagle3]

> If you primarily work with Mac OS, Safari makes some sense, otherwise it makes no sense. Why do I never hear that complaint?

Yes, but I work on all three desktop OSes, and two mobile OSs; I picked Firefox, which I use everywhere except on iOS (where it does exist, but is not really Firefox, even if it does sync with the rest of the Firefoxen).

> Also, Edge on iOS and Android will soon have a built-in adblocker.

Cool. Firefox already does, and I can also use it on Linux and Mac.

> Have you ever looked at the privacy controls of Windows?

Yes, I have, and they are horrible; Have you?. I cannot stop telemetry or updates (unless LTSB which I can't even get, or enterprise which is too expensive to get for home), I can't get security updates without eveything else that Microsoft decides to bundle even if I did use LTSB or Enterprise. I have no way to verify exactly what Microsoft sends to their servers (and their description is incomplete and out of date, if you care to trust it).

The upgrade-to-windows-10 dark patterns are what you should consider when you think "windows control & privacy".

> Also the battery efficiency is significantly more than 10%,

Not in my experience of Edge vs Firefox, unless things have changed very dramatically in the last few months.

> and try find me a more versatile and user friendly alternative OS for pen capable 2-in-1s, that has better privacy controls.

"versatile" and "user friendly" are very subjective terms; I curse every minute I have to work with Windows after having used a consistently set up linux machine (and even MacOS is a little clunky in comparison). "pen capable 2-in-1" is a very specific requirement that means nothing to me and (I would guess) 95% of the users.

In my biased sample of the world, PCs have gone back to being work devices, and everything else is being done on the phone, with cloud sync bridging the gaps. I know a few people who bought a 2-in-1 but no one uses them except as a laptop except on very very rare occasions.

[pjmlp]

Surely not an Android nor ChromeOS user I would guess.

Where are the telemetry setting again?

[beagle3]

On android they are called "Google Play Services". I'm an incidental Android user, but last I tried removing them, that did stop the telemetry (and killed a lot of functionality, but my phone is still usable for my usage).

No idea about ChromeOS - my chromebook runs Arch ....

[NiveaGeForce]

> Cool. Firefox already does, and I can also use it on Linux and Mac.

But Chrome doesn't and I don't use Linux or Mac, but if I were primarily using a Mac, I would be using Safari. And If I were primarily using ChromeOS, I would be using Chrome.

> I have no way to verify exactly what Microsoft sends to their servers (and their description is incomplete and out of date, if you care to trust it).

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-view-and-manage-diagnosti...

> The upgrade-to-windows-10 dark patterns are what you should consider when you think "windows control & privacy".

How is this a dark pattern? Windows 7 and 8 also have telemetry, but they don't let you view it as conveniently as in Windows 10. Also the OS itself supports more privacy control against 3rd party apps, which should be the biggest concern.

> Not in my experience of Edge vs Firefox, unless things have changed very dramatically in the last few months.

Firefox is among the most resource heavy, on both Windows and Mac OS.

> In my biased sample of the world, PCs have gone back to being work devices, and everything else is being done on the phone, with cloud sync bridging the gaps. I know a few people who bought a 2-in-1 but no one uses them except as a laptop except on very very rare occasions.

I do all my work on a Surface Pro 2-in-1, more than 50% of the time in tablet mode. I also keep a close eye on ChromeOS and iPads, but unless they support most of my software and use-cases, I see no reason to switch from Windows anytime soon.

[beagle3]

> How is this a dark pattern? Windows 7 and 8 also have telemetry, but they don't let you view it as conveniently as in Windows 10.

Seriously? Were you not a windows user three years ago when it started? E.g. from [0] "The most famous example of digital bait and switch was Microsoft’s misguided approach to getting people to upgrade their computers to Windows 10."

Windows 7 and 8 are now just as bad, I do not in any way recommend using them if you value your privacy -- but at the very least, it's possible to turn off all telemetry, or at least it used to be possible when I last allowed updates on my Win7 (now it's firewalled off the world), by avoiding/removing specific updates. And according to the link you provided, "Although you can't completely prevent Microsoft from collecting diagnostic data, ...". Thanks, microsoft! but no thanks, even if you let me view what you are sending 3 years after you started snooping on me.

How exactly does the OS support "privacy controls" against 3rd party apps? Do you remember that its default setup was sharing your WiFi passwords with all of your facebook acquaintances?

> I do all my work on a Surface Pro 2-in-1, more than 50% of the time in tablet mode. I also keep a close eye on ChromeOS and iPads, but unless they support most of my software and use-cases, I see no reason to switch from Windows anytime soon.

As I said, according to my obviously biased sample, you are a niche market. YMMV.

[0] https://darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern/bait-and-swit...

[NiveaGeForce]

> The most famous example of digital bait and switch was Microsoft’s misguided approach to getting people to upgrade their computers to Windows 10."

They got a major upgrade for free with major improvements accross the board, they should be happy.

> And according to the link you provided, "Although you can't completely prevent Microsoft from collecting diagnostic data, ...". Thanks, microsoft! but no thanks, even if you let me view what you are sending 3 years after you started snooping on me.

The basic telemetry is just harmless diagnostic data that's on every modern mainstream OS. MS isn't snooping on you.

> How exactly does the OS support "privacy controls" against 3rd party apps?

https://pixelprivacy.com/resources/windows-privacy-settings/

And even more controls have been added with the recent Spring Update.

> Do you remember that its default setup was sharing your WiFi passwords with all of your facebook acquaintances?

Nonsense, this wasn't the default.

[TheCapeGreek]

>If you primarily work with Mac OS, Safari makes some sense, otherwise it makes no sense. Why do I never hear that complaint?

Edge being multiplatform was part of that post, so what the commenter said makes sense. There are better options on Android and iOS.

>Have you ever looked at the privacy controls of Windows?

Privacy and control over the device. Both of which are limited in Windows by comparison.

[NiveaGeForce]

* https://www.windowscentral.com/how-view-and-manage-diagnosti...

* https://pixelprivacy.com/resources/windows-privacy-settings/

And even more controls have been added with the recent Spring Update.

[Jach]

The privacy controls of Windows 10 are insufficient. In order to make Windows 10 usable, at least by Windows 7 standards, for people who actually care (you sound content with MS's worldview, that's fine for you), this is the latest version of all the crap you have to do: https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy

[wffurr]

Why does that guide have you delete all the preinstalled UWP apps and Windows Defender?

I naturally did the first steps in the setup process they suggested, and also did some work to get regular system search instead of Cortana, but deleting sticky notes seems excessive.

[Jach]

Maybe you missed CVE-2018-0986 (https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-US/security-guidance/ad...) and other related notices for Defender and other products, but it's not a great idea these days to let poor quality (remember, MS fired its QA) highly privileged software like Windows Defender or other antiviruses run and automatically scan every file (or worse as some newer systems are doing attach themselves to every process and scan their memory) since that software is itself vulnerable to exploits.

Admittedly the link I posted goes a bit beyond what's strictly needed, but it captures the spirit of the classic Windows setup. It used to be, you buy a new machine, first thing you do is wipe the pre-installed Windows (and all the crap the machine's seller put on there), hope there's not a rootkit (Lenovo, Sony), then install vanilla Windows, then install your graphics drivers... Now it's wipe the pre-installed Windows Home, go buy Windows Professional and then install that, go through the above link to vanilla-ize it and get rid of the pre-installed crap plus take back control of your privacy and machine behavior, then you're ready to download graphics drivers and so on...

[kaoD]

> Edge is the most resource efficient

As a gamer with a potato computer I usually close my main browser (>100 tabs) when I game, but I need a browser for statistics. I've tried using Edge with a couple tabs open but it lowers my FPS, while having a secondary profile of Firefox or Chrome with tens of tabs is still fine.

YMMV

[NiveaGeForce]

I also have a slow 8 year old laptop, and Edge is also the most resource efficient there.

That said, Firefox still has the best performance with hundreds of tabs open.

[MaxBarraclough]

> Edge is on both iOS

Well, not really. It exists on iOS the same way Chrome and Firefox exist on iOS: as frontends for iOS's WebKit engine.

[NiveaGeForce]

And?

[MaxBarraclough]

And that changes the game a great deal. The innards of the browser matter.

For instance, on Windows, I usually use Firefox, but I use Edge to view Netflix, as (for whatever reason) Netflix supports Edge's EME pipeline better than the other Windows browsers. That's specific to the browser's innards, not to its skin.

Incidentally, the DefectiveByDesign guys aren't happy about the situation - https://www.defectivebydesign.org/edge-netflix-eme

[laumars]

...and that's like slapping a custom badge on a Ford Fiesta and calling it a Ferrari.

You're other points are much more interesting though. One of my biggest gripes with the other leading browsers is they often feel "foreign" on your host OS (which isn't Windows in my case, but that is just personal preference).

[piva00]

No, it's like slapping a custom badge over a Ford Fiesta platform's B3, re-do completely the interior, add some smart features around it. Hell, even do some kind of smart auto-assist while you are on it.

You keep the engine and the architecture around it but add your own luxuries and niceties.

[NiveaGeForce]

The only thing that matters is that it integrates well and is efficient on the host OS, and that it can sync settings, bookmarks, reading list and stuff between your devices.

Edge on iOS and Android will have a built-in adblocker soon.

[laumars]

> The only thing that matters is that it integrates well and is efficient on the host OS, and that it can sync settings, bookmarks, reading list and stuff between your devices.

In fairness, bar the "integrates well" point, any modern browser will do what you've described (where "efficient" can be used to described a number of different performance related matrix).

[bitmapbrother]

>Edge on iOS and Android will have a built-in adblocker soon.

You mean the same AdBlock Plus that allows selected ads to bypass it so long as you paid them?

[andybak]

> The only thing that matters

Well - for some of us it matters that the rendering engine behaviour and performance characteristics are the same.

[jug]

That's true, and for others it matters that regardless web browser used on iOS, all you need to care for as a developer is that the user is on iOS.

[NiveaGeForce]

Which are the same as the defaults of the host OS. So there is nothing to make a fuss about.

[bitmapbrother]

>Edge is the most resource efficient

No it isn't. According to this independent test not only did Edge lose to Chrome, but it was also wildly inconsistent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0112lYQBPE

[ksec]

I agree Edge is the most resource efficient Browser on Windows. ( Single or Few tabs only though.. It isn't tuned for Multiple Tabs ) But its Interface.... I have yet seen a person that actually likes it.

[NiveaGeForce]

I regularly have 30+ tabs open without issues.