[closeparen]

You're responding to a technocratic argument about how to allocate taxes equitably with a moralistic argument that taxes are good. From a meta-debate perspective this is both infuriating and tragically common. Details matter. Incentives matter. "Taxes are actually good" isn't a reason to stop caring about which taxation schemes produce the best outcomes or are more fair.

"Punishment" carries some unnecessary connotation. How about "disincentive." People respond to incentives; good policy exploits this by taxing the things society wants less of. Failing that, it levies taxes that don't depend much on behavior, to avoid undesired distortions.

The argument is not that corporations have some kind of right to their income that's being unfairly abridged. It's that taxing corporations is sloppy: the true cost of the tax falls on consumers, workers, and owners in not-very-deliberate proportions. If you want to put the burden on "the richest," great, so do I. But let's tax those actual people.

[rpedela]

Okay but why is it sloppy? Saying the true cost is on consumers, etc is a start but it is not a full argument. How do you know where the true cost lies? And like the other commenter, you seem to think a tax is a cost/disincentive which it is but there is a positive side too. Morality or not there is a benefit to taxes which many purely economic arguments on HN ignore.

In other words, the true cost may be on individual people. But so is the true benefit. So would taxing solely corporations have more cost or benefit for those people? Both for the people in the corporations and those without? I have yet to see a coherent, let alone persuasive, argument against the idea.

[conanbatt]

> Okay but why is it sloppy? Saying the true cost is on consumers, etc is a start but it is not a full argument. How do you know where the true cost lies?

These are the questions the field of economics studies. Thats what they say.

> Morality or not there is a benefit to taxes which many purely economic arguments on HN ignore.

Saying that there is a benefit of taxes is an economic argument. Thats why it gets responded with economic arguments. If you imply the act of paying taxes is moral, I would compare it to the donation to church, where self-sacrifice is a virtue of its own. Much like the donation to church, it should be for those that want it. After all, its not self-sacrifice if its not voluntary!

> In other words, the true cost may be on individual people. But so is the true benefit

The ones that pay are not the ones that receive the benefit. Under this Doctrine you could always see a robber stealing a wallet and conclude that society is not a dime poorer. After all, one side gained what the other side has lost. What a defense the criminal has! That he has not made society poorer!

> So would taxing solely corporations have more cost or benefit for those people? Both for the people in the corporations and those without? I have yet to see a coherent, let alone persuasive, argument against the idea.

Its very hard to tell , precisely because corporate taxes hit different people in different ways in a chaotic way. It is much easier to make a conclusion with different taxation methods, but corporate taxes are very obscure and distortive.

[rpedela]

> The ones that pay are not the ones that receive the benefit.

Again, that is factually and objectively incorrect. I even gave you a personal example where I pay and I benefit. You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

[conanbatt]

Thats you, does every single payer receive the benefit? And does the benefit outstrip the cost?

If the latter is true, there is no need for a tax: the government can sell it optionally and every single payer would subscribe to it. The tax is only necessary to collect the money from people that would not pay for it.

[conanbatt]

Great way to say it.