[cleong]

But in that alternate universe Apple would still have been a huge success, and the iPhone would have been another failed product like the Windows Phone. In addition to this pattern to success, Jobs was not a criminal. Theranos made VERY negligent statements such as the military using Theranos products(they did not).

[sametmax]

> But in that alternate universe Apple would still have been a huge success

Replace iPhone with iPod and Apple never reaches this sky it's currently at. It the product that put it back on the map, open the itune cash valve and paved the road for the iphone flag ship product.

The situation is never _exactly_ the same. But you can see a pattern. And history is written by the victors.

> Theranos made VERY negligent statements such as the military using Theranos products(they did not).

Musk, Jobs and the rests lied as well, just on a different scale.

The scale does make it worse, but the mechanism is the same. If Theranos had delivered, nobody would recall this lie.

[cleong]

Your right about history written by victors, however if Theranos delivered would there be fraud? The issue at hand is that she said she delivered when she did not.

[sametmax]

Of course, but failing show it as the fraud it is. Succeeding would have made it appear just like a "risky bet".

[microtherion]

> Jobs was not a criminal

The options backdating scandal arguably involved criminal behavior, and the anti-poaching collusion between Apple and other companies was arguably illegal as well.

Not saying that Jobs was primarily a criminal, but he was involved in a fair amount of unethical behavior over the years.