[thx11389793]

Having seen a whole tide of articles like this recently, I wonder how long it will be before popular opinion and parenting practices trend back toward giving children appropriate amounts of autonomy.

I hesitate at the thought of raising children here (or at all) for a variety-pack of reasons, one of which is that I was rather over-protected as a child, and I'd rather not pass the results of that that on to my kids.

Any current American-kid-havers care to comment on how difficult it actually is to raise non-sheltered kids in the modern age? Is it a big problem or perhaps overblown for the NPR crowd?

[RobertRoberts]

I am wary of joining this conversation in general. But I have kids, and I have lived both in big cities where stuff was stolen from our porch on a regular basis (we needed a neighborhood watch) and in small towns where we never had to lock our doors.

I've lived in incredibly liberal and conservative areas as well. Some places were very religious with a church for every few hundred in the populace, and where you couldn't even find a church.

Across the board, the liberal, non-religious, high-populace areas had the worst behaved children in public. But religious groups control public perceptions better (my opinion) so privately they could be just as bad or worse off, but that doesn't seem to be the point of this article.

But what I found as a parent, was that children mimic their parents. Period.

Even if you have vacant parents, the kids will still have enough time around them to copy their beliefs and act on them.

I taught in college for 12 years, and the kids that came into my class room changed dramatically from early 2000s till I was done. Something changed in society the past 20 years in a way I can't understand.

One thing is for certain though, you can take a nice decent kid, and give them everything they want, and they can turn into brats when you try and take anything back.

I learned this the hard way with cellphones. My first kid turned super nasty as soon as she got a phone. Partly because all her friends ignored her, she was the only one without a phone in the group settings, so she sat by herself with no one to play with. So we got her an ipod touch, and we instantly had behavior problems.

In retrospect, she was copying my problems as a person, so it's not her fault. But any discussion where the blame isn't placed squarely on the parents first and foremost, is in my opinion, either deceitful with a motive or simply ignorant and possibly a parent in denial.

A parent can raise decent children in almost any environment as long as they are willing to stand up against the negative influences around them.

[BerislavLopac]

> Something changed in society the past 20 years in a way I can't understand.

> My first kid turned super nasty as soon as she got a phone.

I think you might be on to something here...

[BerislavLopac]

And Scott Adams agrees: http://dilbert.com/strip/2018-06-07

[hycaria]

>In retrospect, she was copying my problems as a person, so it's not her fault.

Care to elaborate ? And what could she do anyways ? Launch a discussion that friends would be too absorbed to follow ?

Although I hope there might be a small minority of parents who don't buy their children phones (because of conviction or lack of money) and that eventually they could end up befriending each other, far from instagram and snapchat. But maybe thats wishful thinking.

[RobertRoberts]

>Care to elaborate? And what could she do anyways?

I found that adults can have "mental challenges" that if a child has the same thing, acts differently. For example, I was quite sarcastic as a parent, and having a child be sarcastic to other kids and adults is often disrespectful because they don't know how to "be sarcastic" correctly, or know when it's not appropriate.

When I told my daughter to put her phone down at dinner, or play a game with her siblings, something she had no issue doing before, she reacted harshly in response. I was a very stressed out and tense parent and reacted harshly, and not patiently. So she was mimicing my behavior when she also got stressed and didn't know how to deal with the emotions.

Contrast this with her younger siblings, who I was much more patient with, and when I asked them to put their devices down,if they didn't want to, I was more patient with them. I didn't give up on the request, but I also gave them a little time to put the things down. Which they always do.

>Although I hope there might be a small minority of parents who don't buy their children phones...

A very small minority in my experience. Some parents give their kids high-end iphones when they are in grade school.

My rules are simple. They got a "device" (could be phone without a cell account) when there were 13-14. Limited screen time "asked of them" (I really want them to learn to be responsible, so I don't set hard limits, I taught them to notice how tiring and wastful the time is, and they monitor themselves well), no screen locks, no social media, etc... When they are 16, they can drive and if they want cell connection, they pay for it themselves. (inexpensive extra line on family plan) Garners responsibility, and the expectations are "people over devices". And then also "people next to you over people online".

But I've seen a backlash in kids that are now older, becoming adults, they are working and don't have time for social media like they used to. Maybe a good trend coming?

[aidenn0]

It definitely depends on where you live, but it's gotten easier in the 8 years I've been raising kids as the pendulum seems to be swinging back.

Also, get to know your neighbors really well as soon as possible. There's a huge difference between "Oh look, some random kids are playing alone, how can their mom neglect them like that!" and "Oh look Suzy is letting her kids play outside, isn't that nice." (and yes it's nearly always the mom who gets judged for all parenting decisions; if you're male you will be praised for every tiny thing you do for or with the kids because expectations are so low for dads).

[thx11389793]

I do wonder how much of the issue stems from lack of engagement with the surrounding community.

Anecdote: when I was 7 or 8 I rode my bicycle down the block and came upon a middle aged man who was working on some part of a plane in his driveway. I was then fascinated with everything aeroplane, and hung out a second to pester him with questions. He sent me home with a small chunk of foam he'd cut away from some structure inside it.

I showed my parents my score and they immediately freaked out on me for having talked to a stranger at all, and told me never to go to that house again. Of course if they knew that that was Mr. Donahue working on his homebuilt, it probably would have been a different story.

[le-mark]

I don't think it's hard at all. My kids go to daycare, and they really aren't supervised that much. A class for older, pre k kids will have one or two teachers and 30 kids. They do activities and stuff, but the kids area on their own to a surprising degree. I was surprised at least. The adults basically just keep them from hurting each other (mostly).

At home we don't get involved much with discipline except to enforce no hitting, no name calling, and sharing. Otherwise we let them play on their own. We don't allow much screen time, usually 20 minutes before bed on week nights, and about an hour total on the weekend days. At 5 and 3.5 they're not quite old enough to roam by themselves, and I am very self conscious about letting them out in the yard unsupervised.

My wifes upbringing was a lot more strict/structured than mine, I get the feeling I'm a lot more permissive than she would be with language and manners. I grew up in a rural area (farm kid) and my parents were very hands off.