[joering2]

Thats true. One of my ex classmates went first time abroad, and upon leaving zoll (german border) he told officer “heil hitler” out of pure excitement and probably too many historical movies watched (is there anything else to watch that is german made?). No amount of explanations was sufficient. He got 3 months behind bars and 10 years ban to visit germany. That was in 2007. I assume now its even worse.

[KozmoNau7]

That is basically the most hurtful and offensive thing you could possibly say to any German in a position of authority.

It is cutting extremely deep into their greatest national shame, one of the worst parts of any nation's legacy and all of human history.

Imagine going up to a Russian border guard and going "hail, comrade Stalin!". It's that bad, or worse.

I hope he learned an extremely valuable lesson.

[Fins]

The difference being that the Russian guard will quite possibly like it.

[KozmoNau7]

Yeah, or he might be a neo-nazi. It's impossible to know.

A better example would be going "hey boy, get back to pickin' cotton!" to a black border guard in the US.

[Fins]

Well, the difference is that being a (neo)Nazi is, rightly, illegal in Germany. Being a Communist (or even a Stalinist) is perfectly acceptable, and even encouraged from the top, in Russia.

[KozmoNau7]

Not exactly. What is strongly encouraged is supporting Putin's cult of personality. And Russia (especially Moscow) is more along the lines of crony capitalism these days.

They do try to wrap it in nationalism and appeals to history ("back when the motherland was strong!"), but it's transparently about enforcing the oligarchy.

[Fins]

There's quite a bit of rehabilitation of Stalin going on, and a lot of "and if somebody was executed, well they were the enemy and deserved it". Reading Russian forums can be quite "entertaining" in a way lately.

[Tomte]

Unfortunately, those „historical movies“ didn‘t teach him anything.

[r00fus]

Worse? Germany takes that shit seriously. The first amendment (absolute freedom of speech) is not a worldwide thing.

[umanwizard]

It's unclear whether you mean you're German, and your German classmate was leaving Germany, or you're foreign, and your classmate was entering Germany.

[joering2]

Blows my mind people will downvote just because someone happen to say a relevant story.

[DocTomoe]

God, what an asshole. Three months seem hardly enough to teach this level of stupid.

[cat199]

excitement? that's just dumbness.

Nazi whatever aside, these are border officers..

You don't mess with them, period, unless you're into body cavity searches and the like..

[lopmotr]

You really shouldn't blame the victim just because you've been reading more news stories than him. It's the sort of thing I might have done when I was younger. I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place. People often joke with the workers they have to interact with. I've done that before. It's human nature.

I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up. Once a neighbor called the police who were completely reasonable and asked me to please not park so close to his house because it's making him angry.

[eropple]

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up.

No healthy person does this "just to rile people up."

This is profoundly fucked behavior, and in a sane society it does, and should, lead to ostracizing. Actions have consequences.

[blackbagboys]

At absolute best, it's tasteless, and certainly grounds for social exclusion, but criminalizing and especially pathologizing mildly anti-social behavior is profoundly immoral, reckless, and inhumane.

[eropple]

Nazism and its asides are not merely mildly antisocial behavior. Nazism is a pathology, it is the declaration of the intent to commit violence, and repping Nazi symbols makes you a goddamn Nazi. I believe that communities and societies have the right and the duty to defend themselves against clearly communicated threats of violence. Germany and countries with similar antifascist and anti-Nazi legal strictures have the right of it.

[blackbagboys]

Nah, this is wrong. Putting a Nazi symbol on your car with the intent to piss people off is a juvenile provocation and in no way requires that the perpetrator actually harbor a secret desire to bring about the extermination of the untermenschen.

Completely relinquishing the ability to judge things on their actual context in favor of the unthinking punitive application of absolutist principles is the beating heart of every anti-human ideology.

[Pica_soO]

If you have a whole class of people who have every hour of the day to nanny and harass other people - to rile them up- with any means possible, seems like a good cause.

Bonus Points if you put a Hammer and Sickle right next to them. Creepy Thought-controll-freaks of all nations united- in outrage. My man.

[DocTomoe]

Hammer and Sickle gets you into serious trouble in much of East Europe, particularly in Poland and the Czech Republic.

[smcl]

I’ve seen people (fellow foreigners) wearing hammer and sickle on tshirts in czech and it didn’t seem to cause any trouble. I’m sure people quietly thought “what an idiot” but nobody actually did anything. Weirdly a friend of a friend who was a member of the local football ultras threatened to kick the shit out of a someone who was wearing that iconic Che-Guevara-face t-shirt ... but nothing happened (and that’s probably one of the more violent people).

[lopmotr]

Yes they do. The students of the university I was at were always doing offensive things trying to provoke reactions. Like a column about "Underage celebrities I'd go to jail for" or drawing a giant penis on the carpark. It's normal student culture where I'm from.

[kuerbel]

Are you serious? I am from Switzerland and live in Germany for 10 years, even in Switzerland I would not dare to say this to an officer. At worst they will take it as a personal offence, like I'd imply they are like the Gestapo and at best they'll suspect that I am on drugs or mentally handicapped.

[DocTomoe]

> You really shouldn't blame the victim

Point is, he's not a victim, he's a criminal and has received his well-deserved punishment.

> you've been reading more news stories than him.

When you go to another country, it is your responsibility to follow their laws. Ignorantia legis non excusat.

>I grew up trusting authorities and them always being reasonable and I would never have imagined Germany was such a bizarrely brutal place.

"Brutal". In all fairness, compared to US prisons, German prisons must feel like holiday resorts... As a German citizen, I trust my authorities to uphold the laws.

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up.

No. You had Nazi symbolism on your car because you are likely someone who agrees with the ideology. This also reflects in the kind of people you hang around with.

> Once a neighbor called the police who were completely reasonable and asked me to please not park so close to his house because it's making him angry.

And in Germany, you would have gotten jail time (§ 86a StGB), have your car confiscated and likely destroyed, and probably would have lost your driving license because you have demonstrated that you lack the adequate character to safely operate a vehicle.

And I would have been ok with that.

[ahoka]

"And in Germany, you would have gotten jail time (§ 86a StGB), have your car confiscated and likely destroyed, and probably would have lost your driving license because you have demonstrated that you lack the adequate character to safely operate a vehicle.

And I would have been ok with that."

And no german would see the irony in this...

[KozmoNau7]

German laws and authorities have very little tolerance for Nazis, for damn good reason.

[azeotropic]

No, this was the ironic part: "As a German citizen, I trust my authorities to uphold the laws."

[lifeisstillgood]

We all do - we just watch very carefully when those laws are being written down.

This is something we are learning in the UK as sweeping powers "necessary to implement Brexit" are getting pushed through Parliament. Only so very principled MPs are preventing really sweeping executive powers being granted - they are referred to as Henry VIII laws to give an idea how retrograde we are getting

[lopmotr]

You obviously know that it's a crime in Germany. The parent's friend obviously didn't.

Are you actually in support of rule of law no matter what, or is it just this law you like? For example, are you OK with China executing Falun Gong members? Are you OK with ISIS killing gay people (it's the law of Islam!)? Are you OK with slavery as long as it's legal? Or are you just angry about Nazis especially out of all the other horrible groups in history for some reason? What about the Romans? They were pretty brutal - do you want to destroy the property of people who write roman numerals and write Latin phrases on things? Your extreme reaction doesn't make sense to me.

> lack the adequate character to safely operate a vehicle

It has nothing to do with safety. I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere. It was in no sense a crime or an indication that you're so mentally ill that you're going to crash your car.

> No. You had Nazi symbolism on your car because you are likely someone who agrees with the ideology. This also reflects in the kind of people you hang around with.

Please don't make personal judgments. I explained my reason.

[Lev1a]

It's like going to the US and saying to the first black customs officer you see something along the lines of "So how's slavery treating ya?"/"Boy, get my luggage and find me a car!".

This is universally known as insensitive behaviour and no amount of "muh free speech" is gonna save you from being charged with a hate crime.

When you go to a country, at the very least make the effort not to offend officials with the worst part of that country's history. Otherwise you're not just gonna be seen as a total (criminal) twat but also a lazy one at that.

[lopmotr]

Racist comments aren't hate crimes in the US. It's violence that is. You won't be charged with anything.

You subscribe to the might-makes-right mindset by demanding respect for people who have the power to punish you. That's practical, but not morally very solid since it implies less politeness to weaker people.

Some would argue the 30 years war was worse than the Nazis. It killed more people than the holocaust, and at a time when the population was much smaller.

I totally oppose physical violence against people for saying insults. That's terrible to me. For exactly this reason - innocent people not trying to hurt anybody end up getting punished because they're misunderstood. The swastika really doesn't mean the same thing to people everywhere in the world. Not everyone shares the Germans' violent anger at people who remind them of their past.

[KozmoNau7]

>"I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere."

You obviously should have paid a lot more attention, then.

Can it with the whataboutism, it's not helping you.

If you visit a country, you respect its laws and customs. You don't go around breaking them because you disagree with them. Leave it to the residents of that country to change their laws if needed, don't be an invading asshole.

[lopmotr]

I'm sure he didn't know that law. That seems to be lost on everyone in this thread. It would be a complete surprise to someone who didn't see Nazis as a real personal terrible anger-shame-inducing thing and who comes from a country with freedom of speech.

[lopmotr]

You're culturally oblivious. Stop being so insulting. I wasn't rude to anybody but I'm suddenly facing a barrage of abuse. I get it that Germans have a penchant for imprisoning people because they're insulted. But the rest of us don't have that luxury. Just stop being an asshole to people you talk to.

I wasn't using whataboutism. I was showing an inconsistency in the commenter's general claim. Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?

[tscs37]

When you go to another country, you follow the law there. If you break it, expect punishment.

That doesn't mean the law is okay but the country is fully free to punish you as they see fit.

> Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere.

Not here. Outside of certain exceptions, don't go waving around Nazi symbols in the country that to this day regrets this part of history.