[KozmoNau7]

>"I grew up playing Wolfenstein 3D and watching the History channel. Nazi symbols were completely normal and everywhere."

You obviously should have paid a lot more attention, then.

Can it with the whataboutism, it's not helping you.

If you visit a country, you respect its laws and customs. You don't go around breaking them because you disagree with them. Leave it to the residents of that country to change their laws if needed, don't be an invading asshole.

[lopmotr]

I'm sure he didn't know that law. That seems to be lost on everyone in this thread. It would be a complete surprise to someone who didn't see Nazis as a real personal terrible anger-shame-inducing thing and who comes from a country with freedom of speech.

[DocTomoe]

> I'm sure he didn't know that law.

Let me speak it out for you again:

It doesn't matter. Ignorance does not protect against punishment.

[KozmoNau7]

Ignorance is not an excuse. Would you find it acceptable to go "heil Hitler!" at random people? I hope you don't.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

Your friend must have been completely and utterly ignorant of fundamental history. That's not something to be proud of.

[lopmotr]

You're culturally oblivious. Stop being so insulting. I wasn't rude to anybody but I'm suddenly facing a barrage of abuse. I get it that Germans have a penchant for imprisoning people because they're insulted. But the rest of us don't have that luxury. Just stop being an asshole to people you talk to.

I wasn't using whataboutism. I was showing an inconsistency in the commenter's general claim. Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?

[KozmoNau7]

I'm being culturally ignorant? That's rich. Is it US culture to just randomly insult everyone?

>"Do you also really believe gays are being assholes if they have sex in Saudi Arabia? That they should show respect to the culture that has a deep shame about homosexuals?"

More whataboutism. No, I don't think they're assholes, I think they're idiots. Going to a notoriously anti-gay country, with a death penalty for homosexuality, and then completely flouting those laws? Yeah, that's a really bad idea.

[lopmotr]

That's not what whataboutism means. It means A criticizes B so B responds by criticizing A for a comparable thing.

Here, I'm trying to tease out the meaning from you and a grandparent's posts that seem to ridicule anyone breaking any law, no matter how unjust the law might be. Your particular disrespect seems to be focused on foreigners visiting a country, which seems kind of arbitrary but you've done such a poor job explaining what's behind your judgments that I don't think there's much there besides the desire for violence against anyone who, even unknowingly, offends you. You've also been offensive to me in this thread (feeling free to because I don't have the power to punish you?) and say that you would insult the victims of anti-gay laws. It's clear now that you're a hate filled person so I don't want to know what you really mean anymore.

[KozmoNau7]

We've now wandered way too far off from the original topic.

The simple truth is, if you go visit a country, you do a bit of preparation before you go. That includes any local laws and customs that may differ from those in your home country, in order to avoid trouble.

You wouldn't try to bring a pocket knife on a flight, would you? Like me, you probably disagree with the security theater that has been put in place, but that does not mean you get to plead innocence because of ignorance, or because you disagree with the rules.

Once again: ignorance does not confer immunity from the law, no matter how unjust the law is.

[lopmotr]

I'm not saying ignorance is an excuse for breaking the law. If you find yourself repeating a claim, you're probably not understanding the other person. I'm saying the law in Germany is unjust. I have sympathy for the person who was locked up for 3 months for making a friendly joke. I would also have sympathy for the mother of a tree cutter who was killed because he didn't prepare two escape routes like he should have according to best practice. I wouldn't tell her "your son was stupid, it's no wonder he's dead when he's so disrespectful of the rules." That's something you might try to scare somebody with before he does something dangerous, but not mock them for after they suffer the consequences.

[DanBC]

You said this:

> I used to have a nazi symbol on my car just to rile people up

You can't then complain that people get riled up. It was your intention to provoke them; they were provoked; and now you suffer the consequences for provoking them.

If you don't wish to suffer those consequences you have the freedom to not behave like a fucking idiot.

[KozmoNau7]

>"I'm saying the law in Germany is unjust"

That doesn't matter in this context. When you visit a country, you respect their laws, no matter how unjust they may be.

However, you will find very few people who would agree with you that it is unjust for someone to face consequences for directly and provocatively insulting a policeman with his country's greatest shame in recorded history.

>"locked up for 3 months for making a friendly joke"

Shouting "heil Hitler!" at a German -- especially if it's an authority figure -- is not "a friendly joke". It's a grave insult. If you do not understand why that is, I would suggest you spend a little time researching 20th century history.

Your example with the tree cutter is false equivalence. In his case, it would be a tragedy, which could have been prevented through the use of specialized knowledge. Maybe he didn't know, maybe he was forgetful, maybe he was simply negligent.

If you wanted to make the cases more equivalent, a better example would if he climbed to the top of a very tall tree, and then sawed over the branch he was sitting on. Clearly stupid and with absolutely no common sense.