[blackflame7000]

I mean if you label all your variables i,j, and k and use minimal formatting or bracketing then I see your point it is harder to read. Whats complicated about an iteration. If it works properly after the first one chances are it will continue to work for the millionth one. If you see problems, its because something is modifying it between runs, but that wasn't a fault of the iterative strategy, it was the fault of a bad programmer. Conversely, you must always make sure the stopping condition and all base cases are met during recursion. Forget one corner base case and you got a rare production bug.

[throwaway37585]

> Whats complicated about an iteration

What’s complicated about a recursion?

> If you see problems, its because something is modifying it between runs, but that wasn't a fault of the iterative strategy, it was the fault of a bad programmer.

> Conversely, you must always make sure the stopping condition and all base cases are met during recursion.

You seem to be applying a double standard here.

> Forget one corner base case and you got a rare production bug.

Base cases are usually much easier to reason about.

[davidgay]

> > Whats complicated about an iteration

> What’s complicated about a recursion?

Especially as iteration is just a special case of recursion :)

[blackflame7000]

Then why does NASA consider it unsafe for mission critical code?

How about unknown potential stack size?

How about factoring a large number with recursion?

Everything recursive can be transformed to iterative and yea sometimes it’s not as sexy but neither is a helmet

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3dnsh1/nasas_t...

[throwaway37585]

> Then why does NASA consider it unsafe for mission critical code?

They also proscribe unbounded iterations (point 2). In any case, NASA’s guidelines for mission-critical code are not necessarily good guidelines for general software engineering, given the constraints involved.

It’s also worth noting that recursive solutions are probably more amenable to static analysis and automated theorem proving.

> How about unknown potential stack size?

If stack size is a problem, try an iterative solution.

> How about factoring a large number with recursion?

Go with iteration.

You keep editing your answer to add more cases where iteration is the way to go. I’m not disputing there are use cases where iteration is appropriate.

[danmg]

> Then why does NASA consider it unsafe for mission critical code?

More like they're using an old Fortran 77 environment which doesn't support recursive functions.

[dahart]

No that's incorrect. Their rules are C guidelines, and they are easy to Google. You might want to do that before making assumptions.

NASA's rules, the ones being referenced above, are designed for safety. They require code to be easy to statically analyze and to have absolutely predictable behavior.

Also to be avoided: memory allocation, unbounded loops, function pointers, preprocessor macros.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_10:_Rules_for_Dev...

[danmg]

Most of the numerical code they're going to use is in Fortran, and interlanguage calling convention and the runtime might pose a problem.

This is in addition to not using recursive functions being pretty standard in anything embedded. Early computers and embedded systems had very limited stack space or had calling conventions that made recursion impossible.

[throwaway344534]

More like they were using C, saw the prospect of unbounded stack calls unreasonable with a computer with limited ram and banned recursion. Oh wait that's exactly what happened because iteration is safer than recursion.

[dahart]

Iteration is not inherently safer than recursion. NASA also banned while(true) iteration. The important part is "fixed upper bounds".

"Give all loops a fixed upper bound. It must be trivially possible for a checking tool to prove statically that the loop cannot exceed a preset upper bound on the number of iterations. If a tool cannot prove the loop bound statically, the rule is considered violated."

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ad40/26510beb1a309902704583...

[jacquesm]

That's a restriction on the environment which has absolutely nothing to do with how readable a certain piece of code is. In fact it argues the opposite: we force you to use a less readable version of your code because the elegant one may be easier to read but it may have negative consequences due to implementation details.

That's a really good trade-off for them but it does not necessarily help readability.

[blackflame7000]

But then your code is not portable because it is now susceptible to arbitrary stack depth changes blowing up your program. None of your arguments make sense when compared with the overwhelmingly superior iterative approach. Recursion is the same as iteration + downsides. I mean seriously name the last time you had a stack overflow and weren't doing recursion? That's an entire class of bug introduced or eliminated by a simple design decision. That's how you write superior code for now and in the future.

You shouldn't have to know about the implementation when writing portable code. If you introduce recursion, you now need to worry about implementation since the machine max stack size is now an issue and you've broken the abstraction. And what exactly did you gain that outweigh's the cons?

[jacquesm]

You are confusing implementation of a language with readability. And I honestly don't remember the last time I had a stack overflow, there is something known as tail-call optimization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tail_call

[pvg]

Then why does NASA consider it unsafe for mission critical code?

You started with the assertion iterative implementations were more intuitive and easier to read so this is a bit of goalpoast-moving. Write an iterative pseudocode DFS or quicksort. How 'intuitive' does that look?

[blackflame7000]

I'm saying that there are so many downsides both obvious and sneaky associated with recursion that it makes almost no sense to use when the iterative approach is usually safer, doesn't have the headache of unbounded stack calls, and can be more easily parallelized with things like OpenMP

[pvg]

That's what you are saying now, this is what you were saying before:

" I'm willing to bet most people if shown 10 recursive and 10 iterative solutions to the same problems would admit the iterative approach is more intuitive. "

Now you are at NASA sending probes to asteroid Weasel 39812.

[kolpa]

In an iterative solution, you have to get your loop conditions correct, and you have to create a bunch of inputs before you know how you are going to use them, sort of a "solution in search of the problem". Recursion takes a problem and expresses it terms of similar, but smaller, unsolved problems, unless you can solve it directly (base case). It's a "problem in search of a solution", that always makes progress (unless you have a bad algorithm, as always).

If a recursive solution works on a small input, it will work on a big input. If you missed a base case, you'll see it immediately because trivial (literally!) input will make your solution fail to terminate.

In production, the main problem with recursion is stack size limits (or more generally memory limits) if you can't/don't use tail-call elimination.