Getting feedback when a company declines to make an offer

[alephnullz]

I recently interviewed for a position at The Atlantic Monthly as part of their data team. After two hours in person, a phone screen, and a two hour coding test, I was told I was "in contention" -- and then they went radio silent for two weeks. Finally I heard back from the recruiter that they had declined, but provided no other feedback. I contacted the hiring manager, who I'd already exchanged several emails with, to ask if he had any constructive feedback, but did not receive a reply.

I understand the potential reluctance of a firm to provide feedback to candidates they decline to hire, even ones they feel are reasonably strong: they are probably concerned about legal ramifications. But still, this feels unprofessional, especially when you've spent a day or so invested in the interview process.

I'm curious what the HN crowd has to say about this.

[jiveturkey]

It's not unprofessional at all. It's the standard. Nobody on the receiving end likes it, and many on the hiring end don't like it either, but it is what it is. For a company the size I imagine The Atlantic is, you're lucky to have even gotten a no from the recruiter. Many companies just drop you without further contact. (That is a bit unprofessional.)

Sounds like this may have been your first job interview ever, TBH.

Move on.

At your next interview, ask the final tech interviewer before you leave, what their impression is. I wouldn't do this with every interviewer because the response (good or bad) will change your psyche and affect the rest of the interviews through the day.

Don't bother asking the HR person (usually they are the final person you speak to before you leave), they won't tell you anything useful. For smaller companies, where the HR rep will have some useful feedback for the hiring manager, do make an impression on them before you leave that you like the company and the folks you met and hope that you'll be a good fit, etc. A compliment about some aspect of the company wouldn't hurt either.

And look at it this way. It doesn't matter what the feedback is. If you're not a good fit, you're not a good fit. If you feel the reasons are wrong, you'll just get mad about it (and frequently their reasons are wrong, but the interview format doesn't allow for deep exploration of any candidate). If they are right, they are right. You shouldn't change your presentation of yourself based on some company's personal, biased impression. You should find a company that wants to hire you.

[wjossey]

I'll tweak this recommendation and say that I'd probably not ask outright "how'd it go" to the final interviewer (they may not really know at this point anyway). Instead, I might look to say something to the effect of:

"I'm always looking for ways to improve, and I've found in my career that interviews are a great way to expose oneself to new growth opportunities. If you, or anyone on the team, has some feedback based on the interview, regardless of whether or not I get the position, I'd love to hear it."

This has the added benefit of showing a few things:

[1] You're committed to growing and improving. [2] You're open to feedback. [3] You're showing you'd value their team's opinion, which signals your own interest in the team.

Mind you, a lot of companies won't want to share any information for legal reasons. Not much you can do about that, but it never hurts to ask.

[CodeWriter23]

I wouldn’t ask during the interview because I believe the asking could be mistaken for insecurity.

[partisan]

The right way is to position it as a learning opportunity. You ask if they have any reservations about your background. It gives you a chance to get some negative feedback and also gives you the opportunity to address their concerns.

[fjones11]

In many cases, a company is concerned about opening itself up to potential legal action. It sucks for candidates who really just want to know how to improve, but the safest action for a company is to simply not provide any information, rather than provide something that could be used against them later.

It's not dissimilar to why many companies can't provide more info on reference checks than the dates of someone's employment.

If you don't recall any major red flags, it really might just be an issue of fit. Maybe you didn't have a specific type of experience or expertise that they decided would work best for this job (and another candidate did). It doesn't mean you're not a great candidate, just that you're not the right candidate for this job at this company.

[mabui91]

Is this specific to US? Since I have never had any issues with receiving feedback in Europe. Fun fact: The current job I'm at, I was declined at first, but after asking for feedback and having a follow up discussion about it, they changed their mind and offered me the position.

[brudgers]

It is typical in the United States. In part due to the nature of employment law. In part due to employment law making the legally conservative approach normative. I would say your experience is not entirely beyond possibility here when dealing with a small company and an unadvertised position. It is unlikely at an organization of substantial size with an advertised position.

[bjourne]

> In many cases, a company is concerned about opening itself up to potential legal action.

Can you give an example of specific kinds of feedback that would open a company up for legal action?

[mbfg]

It's absolutely status quo. If something other than this happens you should be shocked. There is the concern over lawsuits etc, which is real, but really, the issue (I believe) is that many companies really can't articulate valid reasons why they took the person they took over you. It's rarely about ability, experience or drive, but more squeemish things like cultural fit, personalities, and other 'like us' decisions like ageism, sexism, tribalism, etc.

Frankly, you should be honored that they actually contacted you to tell you they didn't want you. It is very common for companies to just hope you forget.

[thelastidiot]

No feedback when you get rejected seems to be the rule these days. No one wants to take responsibility to carry the "bad" news. Radio silence for a few days and you know you are out anyway. The market is so competitive, they wouldn't let you free otherwise. I take it a sign that it's not a company I would want to work for and move on. F'em!

[alephnullz]

Agreed regarding the "radio silence." This at least seems very unprofessional, especially if a company (as in this case) has indicated that you are "very much in the running."

[brudgers]

Suppose there are four fully qualified candidates for a single position. To a first approximation, three of them did not get the position because there were four candidates and one position. The reasons why one or another candidate was chosen are much much less relevant to the outcome experienced by other three. The difference is mostly luck. Sure the hiring committee may have found reasons for picking one and not the others. But that's the nature of their job...rejecting three candidates and/or choosing one. And all this assumes that there actually was a position and not just the possibility or hope or wish that there might be one in the future.

[muzani]

Most of the time there are plenty of people we would be happy to hire, but some other guy was just slightly more qualified or slightly cheaper for the same qualifications.

There are some cases where it's just attitude. Like I feel this person was just blasting her resume to everyone and picked someone whose cover letter felt a bit more sincere.

There are plenty of cases where someone is simply not qualified. Or that I'd get the impression that this person is not very smart and choose not to move forward with the interview process.

Weak English is another major reason. We rarely need someone good with algorithms or a specific tech skill. This is all learnable. What we really need is someone who can build what we want the first time, and not spend 2 weeks building the wrong thing. Or having to hire someone else to read the manual for them. It's really hard to explain why you'd think someone has poor English. Grammatical errors and a few typos are okay. But sometimes it feels like some effort to simply communicate with the person.

Also do note that the person on the other end is human. We don't really want to say why we reject someone, as the reason is often unfair and false. It's very uncomfortable to explain it. Easier to just ghost someone.

[alephnullz]

I notice a lot of value judgments on here with respect to the original posting. In no way was it a comment on the job, frustration with the interview process itself, or a comment on my or the interviewer's proficiency. I was merely curious whether feedback is common.

I've had a reasonably long career and have been blessed (and perhaps lucky) to have gotten almost every job I've interviewed for, so I wasn't quite sure whether feedback is the norm or not, as I haven't been in the position to assess that.

The summary, though, seems to be not to expect feedback, at least not post-interview, if you are not made an offer. This is understandable from a liability perspective. More professional companies will, after an interview, at least notify you (or your recruiter) that they have decided to pass on your candidacy. And finally, lack of feedback is not necessarily indicative of a poor, nor a great, interview. Any number of factors may have come into play, including, as far as one knows, say, that at the last minute the CTO decided to hire his cousin.

[partisan]

I had a similar experience with my first interviews in a very long time. I had two phone screens and a long in-person interview. And nothing ever again after that. It left me with a very sour taste. I was told I was one of two candidates and I would be notified by the end of the week either way. Literally the one thing I asked from them was to hear back either way. I won’t work with either the recruiter or that company again.

[avitzurel]

We provide that feedback if the candidate asks for it. In engineering or any other role (product, project management etc...).

It's never comfortable, but it's something that I think you deserve to get.

Just as a side note, I think a lot of people know why they were rejected. It's rare that people think the interview went great and they still did not get an offer.

[mbfg]

>> Just as a side note, I think a lot of people know why they were rejected. It's rare that people think the interview went great and they still did not get an offer.

i don't think this is true at all. Being on both sides, i know most people i interview have a higher opinion of the interview than i do.

But also the interviewer might truely like you, and so you feel good about things, but someone higher up nixes the hire, for nebulous reasons.

[mlthoughts2018]

If a firm asks you to invest time in the interview process beyond the initial application and maybe an initial HR call, then it’s deeply unprofessional if they don’t give you some feedback about their decision.

It does not matter if they want to have a no-feedback policy for legal risk mitigation reasons or anything else, it is just simply an unacceptable way to treat a person after taking up their time. And it becomes more egregious as they take more time with more interviews or assessments.

The hard truth is that most companies are bad, in a Moral Mazes sense, and the fact that these inhumane practices get adopted by the majority is not an endorsement that they are in any sense OK or tolerable. They aren’t.

When a company fails to give sincere feedback after taking up your time, just be thankful you get to avoid them, as it seems clear it would be a toxic workplace culture.

[paulcole]

If you absolutely need feedback when you don't get an offer, be clear about it up front. If a company won't agree to it, don't interview with them.

Otherwise keep playing the game according to their rules.

[ApolloRising]

Don't spend another second thinking about it or them and move on to better pastures. It could be as simple as someone was ahead of you in the queue and you were a backup interview.

[borplk]

Don't bother they will never mention anything concrete.

[CodeWriter23]

They don’t owe you anything.

[Blackstone4]

I would call the hiring manager (directly if you have his number or through the switchboard/reception i.e. just ask for him).

When you communicate, be clear that you're a grown-up and are look for constructive feedback.