[bbitmaster]

The issue I suspect caused this is all of the newer energy efficient washers/ dryers. The author tested a Samsung dryer. I recently lived in apartment with a similar model, and it was terrible. When visiting parents I was stunned at how well their older washer/dryer worked. The clothes came out much more clean too.

In my experience the newer energy efficent washers/dryers are almost total garbage compared to the older ones. I would love to see this experiment repeated with an older 90's kenmore or whirlpool or really any brand from the 90's or before.

I love the idea of saving energy, and energy efficient laundry sounds like a great idea on the surface, but what I think happened was the government put regulations in place without really considering the actual impact this would have on the quality of the washers/dryers.

[rsynnott]

The likes of Comsumer Report have tended to find that modern front-loading machines are almost universally more effective than the old low-efficiency top loaders popular in the US, and can also attain much higher temperatures (fairly basic models can do a >90 degree C wash, say). So that’s probably not it.

Though there might be an element of misuse. My machine warns in the manual to do a 60or 90 degree wash with no clothes every couple of months to clean the machine. I suspect most people don’t do this.

[weavie]

Would it be necessary to do this wash without clothes? I missed that bit and generally do a high temperature wash with my sheets figuring I am killing two birds with one stone...

[bartman]

Should be fine with clothes. My Siemens has a cleaning reminder that turn on after a month or so unless at least one wash with 60C or higher has been done.

[rsynnott]

The manual normally says "with no clothes", but I'm not sure what the basis for that is.

[sandworm101]

Bleach also works. Run a hot load, with or without actual laundry, and enough bleach to kill everything.

[greedo]

Doing a 90C wash may kill some germs, but it'll do a better job of killing your clothing. Delicate mode is the best thing for your clothes.

[yongjik]

Growing up in Korea, and living in the US for 5+ years now, what I've heard is that American washer models are so forceful that they wear clothes out. If you are accustomed to such washers (and clothes made with such expectation) I can see how you think the newer models are not as good. But I would choose a Samsung/LG washer over Whirlpool any day, if the prices were the same.

[hocuspocus]

Compared to Korea, I'd think that tumble drying is the main culprit behind wearing clothes out. Anecdotally when I first moved to Korea I had a huge top-loading Samsung washer that made insane amounts of lint.

Front-loaders are vastly different between the North American market and Europe or Korea. I remember my friend's brand new LG in California would run an eco-friendly cycle in 40 minutes. A similar model in Europe takes 4h30!

[Nition]

I've noticed that Americans seem to tumble dry everything. Here in New Zealand anyone with enough yard space for a washing line generally air drys their clothes unless it's rainy. In fact most of my clothes have Do Not Tumble Dry on the label, although that message is often a bit overzealous and can certainly be selectively ignored.

[bobthepanda]

A lot of developments in America these days specifically ban clothesline drying because it's associated with, well, being poor. Never underestimate the zealousness of American HOAs, condo boards, and landlords in wanting to keep up appearances.

[JoshMnem]

Electric dryers are also a huge environmental burden due to electricity consumption. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think electric dryers require many power plants worth of electricity. In many parts of the world, air drying is normal.

If anyone is looking for ideas on how to make the world a better place, look into figuring out how to shift the culture so that air drying becomes more common. Also composting toilets.

Edit: Drying clothes uses 56 billion kWh of energy in the US.[1] Another related area that needs work is standby power.[2]

[1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=96&t=3

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/science/just-how-much-pow...

[hinkley]

Which is why HE washers spin so damned fast. It’s cheaper to centrifuge off a bit more water than to heat it out of the clothes.

[Retric]

US uses 3000+ billion kWh of electricity so dryers are meaningful but not that huge of an impact. I think there are better areas to focus such a campaign.

[Retric]

You can easily do in door clothes drying in most areas especially if you're single. Combine with a 70+C wash cycle and cloths should be fairly close to sterile when you start.

[Reason077]

"A similar model in Europe takes 4h30!"

That's not true of modern front-load washers. At my old (UK) flat we had an old Beko front-loading clunker. It worked perfectly well but was very noisy and took a long time (not 4 hours though! maybe 1.5 - 2 hours).

At my current place we have a much more modern one where a fast/economy cycle takes 36 minutes. It's nice and quiet too.

[hocuspocus]

I'm specifically talking about top-of-the-line LG and Samsung eco-friendly washers. Check out their specs if you don't believe me, I had one of these. 4 hours at 40C and nearly 5 hours at 60C. It never bothered me though.

Edit: here's an example: http://www.lg.com/uk/washing-machines/lg-FH4A8TDN2#

- 60°C full load 297 minutes

- 60°C partial load 244 minutes

- 40°C partial load 239 minutes

[glogla]

The washers also sometimes lie about how long will something take. Mine claims 40 almost full liad will take 3 and half hours, then twenty minutes later it claims two and half hours remaining and then it finishes hour later.

I have no idea why it does that.

[noja]

It adjusts the time to the load.

[c12]

My bosh front loader does a 40°C cotton wash in just under 5 hours, or if I switch it to a 40°C mixed load it does the same content in 60 minutes, or 40 minutes if I tell it to consume more water and electricity.

I have no idea what the difference between the cotton and the mixed load settings is, but I usually do the shorter cycle if I have a lot of loads to do.

[DanBC]

But you're not comparing like for like. The machine you list also has a "turbo wash" (heavily promoted on the link you provide that only takes one hour. That's an eco mode full load.

And for the comparison to be correct you need to compare an eco mode quick wash - normally a light load.

[hocuspocus]

> But you're not comparing like for like.

I'm trying to. The standardized annual power consumption that is advertised on the energy rating is only accurate if you use the default settings for 40 and 60°C cotton cycles. And that is effectively 4 hours at 40°C for a partial load. I saw the advertised "turbowash" cycle, however while it's supposed to be energy efficient, you have to take LG's word for it.

In the US, while models differ in size, if you look at a similar price range and load capacity, you'll see that numbers used for the energy rating are pretty similar (around 100 kWh or less). But, to my knowledge, the default cycles are fairly short. Sadly neither Samsung nor LG seem to publish cycle length in their manuals.

[jdietrich]

It's dieselgate for washing machines.

Slow wash cycles are more efficient. Loosening the dirt by soaking means that less agitation is required. Manufacturers cheat the mandatory efficiency tests by making the default cycle very slow, but offering faster cycle settings. My washing machine takes nearly four hours for a standard cotton cycle, but has a "speed perfect" button that reduces the wash time to under an hour. I always use the fast setting.

[Reason077]

That's not really anything like dieselgate. Washing machines, I would hope, aren't emitting toxic gases that kill people.

It is, perhaps, a little deceptive if people believe their machines are more efficient than they really are on the commonly used cycles.

The way to solve this would be to improve the efficiency tests so that they test the efficiency of a fast cycle as well as an economy/long cycle.

[Reason077]

It says "Turbowash: 59 minutes" on that link?

I guess if you're setting it running in the morning and then heading out for the day, 4-5 hours isn't a problem. But often I end up doing all the laundry on one day: clothes as well as towels, bed sheets, etc, in multiple loads, and don't want to be waiting around too long for each load to finish...

[rahimnathwani]

If it's old, then it was probably made before the EU regulations about eco-friendly modes. Newer machines still have the fast modes, but they also have super-long eco-friendly modes. The manual will identify which of the machine's modes comply with the regulations:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...

[rahimnathwani]

That's because there are EU regulations about energy efficiency. Washing machines must have eco-friendly cycles that use less energy: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...

These cycles take longer. AIUI it's to compensate for reduced temperature (saving the bulk of the energy) and reduced water usage.

[dragonwriter]

No, what “happened” is that detergent mostly isn't made for germ killing and heat even of typical (even older) hot cleaning cycled is insufficient to kill bacteria.

None of this is news.

Of course, people used to use actual (chlorine) bleach with laundry more often, rather than colorsafe “bleach”, and chlorine bleach does kill germs, so that's part of what happened.

[pmoriarty]

Bleach will fade color clothes, though, won't it? I have a lot of black clothes and don't want them fading or having white spots from the bleach.

I've been trying to just use vinegar. Hope it helps.

[icebraining]

As far as I know, it not only fades (some) fabrics, but it can also weaken some fabric, even if it's white.

[mtgx]

That's true.

[mrob]

It will fade natural fibers, but with 100% synthetic fabrics the dye or pigment is usually mixed into the plastic before it's turned into fibers. In this case the bleach can only affect a very thin surface layer, which causes no visible color change.

[faitswulff]

From what I read, she did a few blots of clothes washed with her parents' and sister's clothes that had been washed with older style washing machines, so the issue can't entirely be the new washing machines.

[cnst]

I disagree. You can still put the proper settings on the newer High Efficiency washers, at least; and they do wash clothes much better than the older models, especially deep stains, due to much better rotation on the side-loading machines. I always select the maximum possible cycle on HE washers, and was never disappointed with the results, especially compared with the older models.

As for the driers, if your coloured clothes have that whitish undertone that suggests they've been through a good drying in your drier, then I think you're doing it wrong. I was so disappointed how much my clothes would wear out in the American driers that I'd always make sure to only use them on the lowest setting possible, even for jeans and such. Definitely not missing any old non-HE driers; you're not really supposed to kill the bacteria with the heat of the drying anyways, and using hot water is much more efficient for that.

[iforgotpassword]

What I don't get is why those machines are so eager on saving water. The amount of water used costs so much less compared to the electricity (at least here in Germany) but on some kinds of load the clothes get barely wet. Making it heat up slower or using more efficient motors would be enough IMO. Or at least add a button that reads "waste a shitload of water".

My washer is sitting next to the kitchen sink and I just manually add a huge load of water every time I turn that damn thing on. I installed a faucet with a hose just for that reason.

[kalleboo]

More water is not necessarily better - less water means more agitation https://www.consumerreports.org/washing-machines/yes-your-wa...

[jpalomaki]

Might have something to do with the various eco- and energy efficiency labels [1]. I think they show absolute values for water and energy use, but wash efficiency is rated with letters (and the scale is probably set so that most get the A rating). This might create an incentive to try to push those figure down which need to be shown and just make the machine take more time. If you have already reached the maximum rating for washing quality, there may not be point to improve that at the expense of the other figures.

Most of the washing machine purchasing decisions must be based on the marketing fluff. I don't think there are many publications even on EU level which run and publish comprehensive tests for these machines. Without such objective tests, it is pretty much impossible to base the purchasing decision on hard facts (except those mandated to be reported by EU).

I remember reading that some washing machines actually did not even obey the request to use high temperatures, because the manufacturer had noticed that they can match the EU target for wash efficiency also with lower temperatures. Can't find any reference for this, so take this with a grain of salt.

[1] http://www.topten.eu/uploads/File/130904_Topten_recommendati...

[sandworm101]

I hate the new machines that weight the laundry before adding the water. I live in BC, Canada, in a literal rain forest. We have more water than we know what to do with. I have relatives who are about to scrap their new machine because it never uses enough water. They run the cycle twice just to ensure the soap is properly rinsed off. And they get their water from a solar-powered well!

[drb91]

Water is finite. Meanwhile you can generally always pay for more electricity.

Cape Town will likely be out of water by July 15.

High efficiency dryers and washers have their place; just maybe not where water is prevalent.

[gambiting]

Depends on where you live - in North of England and parts of Scotland the water is so plentiful you don't even get a water meter in your home, you only pay a flat delivery charge each year, but are otherwise free to use as much as you like. In which case, I'm happy to use a program that uses loads of water, but obviously in other locations(Cape Town) the amount used should be restricted. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

[rahimnathwani]

Water may fall from the sky in the North, but it's not rainwater that comes out of the tap at home.

The lack of water meters is a legacy thing. Water companies all over the UK (including the North) are trying to migrate consumers away from unmetered tariffs. For example: https://www.nwl.co.uk/your-home/your-account/considering-a-w...

And in case you think the water companies are just as happy if you're on an unmetered tariff: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/water-m...

[taejo]

> Cape Town will likely be out of water by July 15.

The rainy season is starting, and Cape Town is unlikely to run out of water this year. It was touch-and-go until a few months ago, though, and there's still a risk for next year.

[ams6110]

No it isn't. We're drinking the same water the dinosaurs drank, for the most part.

[drb91]

I’m not sure your point. That doesn’t really help you unless you’re near the water. On a local level, especially across a single year, water levels are finite and exhaustible.

[icebraining]

Arguably it ends up being a matter of energy use in either case, either to desalinize it or to carry it from afar. That's usually very expensive, though.

[hinkley]

All my yard work clothes go through the HE washer twice. Once on quick wash and then again on a regular load to get the dirt out. Running the cycles longer does very little to get out the stains.

[txsh]

They considered the impact because I remember the outcry from people who were against the regulations. They just didn’t care.