[enoch_r]

I'm not against parenting advice in general--sometimes it's invaluable, like when you have a specific problem that's impacting you/your child's life, and you need to find a solution.

In terms of long-term parenting philosophies, though, I'd strongly suggest reading Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids by Bryan Caplan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004OA64Q6/

It's a book length treatment of the fact that twin studies have demonstrated extremely convincingly that as long as you meet a pretty low bar for decent parenting (you aren't such an obviously bad parent that you would get rejected by adoption agencies) the impact of your parenting on your kids' lives is minimal at best. You won't make them smarter, you won't change their personality to be more adventurous or cautious, you won't succeed in molding them with all the life lessons you've learned, and you won't put them on a path to happiness (or unhappiness) when they grow up.

This may sound somewhat bleak if you're hoping to tiger-mom your children to Harvard. But it's also freeing--you can stop worrying, enjoy the ride more, and maybe most importantly, give your kids a fun childhood they'll look back on with pleasure.

[derefr]

> as long as you meet a pretty low bar for decent parenting ... the impact of your parenting on your kids' lives is minimal at best

That's assuming an upbringing in regular society, though, yes? I'm curious whether there'd be much larger effect-sizes on these interventions for children who are brought up in isolation, knowing only their families (e.g. this girl: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/invisible-girl/).

If that's true—if there is a larger effect-size—then it suggests that "the real problem" isn't so much that nothing works, as that your society has a much larger effect in shaping you (toward the mean, usually) than your parents could ever have; and that, perhaps, part of the plan for raising children well should be to immigrate to a country with the sort of culture that you would want to rub off on them. Or, at least, emigrate away from your own country—to anywhere else—if you severely disagree with your culture's beliefs, because your kids are likely to pick up some of those beliefs no matter what you do.

And if a larger effect-size isn't there, then it would suggest everything about people is a lot more genetically determined than we think, and that you should translate any impulse you have to raise kids to be a certain way, into an impulse to select mates with good genes (and maybe to adopt if your own genes won't produce the kids you want.)

[Roritharr]

Thats actually an interesting concept i've contemplated lately, but I didn't find a conclusive answer. Is there a questionnaire i can fill out that spits out the community my family would fit into with our belief-system?

It's not that its a healthy thing for society to form these monocultural blocks of opinions, but after thinking about what values I were taught in school and how long it took me to unlearn the most damaging ones, i'd favor having the option to go somewhere else more sensible to me.

[obelos]

There's a difference between trying to influence how your kids turn out (for some value of “turn out”), and approaching your parenting in a way that facilitates the ease of your ongoing personal relationship with them. Your choices and actions as a parent may not be able to make them smarter than they are naturally inclined, but you can make your own relationship with them better or worse based on your choices.

But yeah, not worrying overmuch about the outcomes does allow parents to enjoy the ride and help their kids feel the love, attention, and structure that facilitates them growing into themselves.

[throwaway5752]

I would strongly suggest you don't read a parenting book by an economist. Read one by a developmental psychologist or a pediatrician, who is an actual academic expert in this area.

Also, you probably don't need books. Be an attentive parent and get to know your child. They are a person. Invest a lot of time in finding a good pediatrician, and listen to them, too.

[mrfusion]

Wouldn’t tiger moms be a counterpoint to that thesis though? They obviously have a huge impact on their children’s lives.

[taneq]

The twin studies suggest that you can "break" your kids (and damage their outcomes to some degree) if you go too far in most directions, but that as long as you don't do this and you stay fairly moderate, their outcomes depend far more on nature than nurture.

In the case of tiger moms, the confounding factor is that along with their overbearing parenting they probably passed along some highly effective genes, though the kids probably would have been just as effective (maybe even more-so) with a more relaxed upbringing.

[enoch_r]

That intuitive obviousness is why the contradictory evidence is so surprising!

I would guess that tiger moms probably influence their children's lives much more through heritability of personality attributes (like persistence, ambition, intelligence, etc.) than through their parenting style.

[mwerd]

No, the argument in the book is that upbringing matters through ~college graduation but the probability of success (which I think caplan roughly defines as the ability to support an average American family) reverts to genetic probability by 35. Caplan makes a point to say this assumes upbringing in an OECD type of economy.

Been a while since I read it but he covered the obvious counterpoints from what I remember.

[analog31]

Their kids have similar genes. But for better or worse I live in a neighborhood full of tiger moms, and they are not necessarily successful. Also, it takes a certain set of psychological traits to be a tiger mom in the first place, e.g., self discipline and emotional control. I don't think I could have pulled off being a tiger mom, even if I had believed in it and wanted to do it.

[lgessler]

Only if tiger moming is actually effective: popular perception of it is probably warped by selection bias.

For every child that was pushed into an Ivy by a ruthless parent, there are probably many others who were left only with an unhappy childhood and a lingering lack of self-esteem.

[bigleagueposter]

Plenty of way parents can heavily influence you. I would have turned out much different if my father didn't teach me programming. The current POTUS wouldn't be who he is if he didn't get a small loan of a million dollars.

[donquichotte]

Counterexamples: Polgár Sisters. And basically all professional athletes, which typically start at a very young age, presumably with a parent's support (or pressure).

[jedrek]

Treating interactions with your child like it's they're a problem to solve means you're treating them like a pet, and I have real issues with that.