[jacksmith21006]

Why is Apple given a pass?

They gave all their China user data to the China government so they could stay in China to make a buck. Is that not selling users data?

Versus Google chose to leave China instead of handing over the data.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ...

[thisacctforreal]

They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind, and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used.

The iCloud-China situation is unfortunate. The situation is very different from Google, both in the opportunity costs, and the fact Apple's products are dependent on China to be manufactured.

Additionally, if you forego iCloud services (namely iCloud backup), then the data that the CCP can access is actually quite limited. All of their phones since the 5s in 2013 have been leaders in security, and if you use a passphrase or 10-digit pin as a passcode then not even the most recent iPhone cracking tools could brute-force your phone (within a dozen years, within a century for 11-digits).

I'm miffed about China, but I still believe Apple is the best option because I don't think there's much that can be done in their position and the impact is limited. For me that would change the instant an actual iOS backdoor is made for any gov't.

[jacksmith21006]

Not following. There were billions to be made by Google in China and they decided giving up their user data was a bridge too far. So basically chose to not sell their user data.

Versus Apple handed over all there user data to make a buck. Plus this is actual data not a targeted ad.

Do I have this correct?

[awakeasleep]

You're missing facts that change the whole picture.

Cloud services are required to use Google services & devices. G had to choose between giving China everything or withdrawing from the market.

Cloud services are an add-on to Apple's products. The iPhone is still useful without enabling anything from iCloud. Cloud services are optional with the iPhone.

[jacksmith21006]

Cloud is not required with Google. What are you talking about?

[saagarjha]

What are you talking about? 90+% of Google's services are online. Apple has a substantial hardware business, so I don't see how you are conflating the two.

[jacksmith21006]

You can buy an Android phone and never use the cloud if you want just like an iPhone.

The two are actually very similar.

Google services do not matter if you have an Android phone or an iPhone. Suspect there is actually more consumption of Google services on the iPhone then even Android but do not have numbers handy to support.

[urda]

... what Google products don't require the cloud? You know that pretty much all Google services are in the cloud yes?

As a third party observer, you have gone completely off the rails here.

[crispinb]

> They make an effort to design their products and services with privacy and security in mind

This is certainly true, and given that under Cook Apple has clearly decided this is a strategic asset to invest in, will probably become more true over time

> and are much more transparent about what data is collected and how it's used

This is false - Google does just as good a job on transparency. It's trivially easy to see what data they have on you, and control it as you wish. Google's business model would be threatened if people used these facilities, but of course they don't.

[millstone]

Google has lots of data that they don't show you. In particular, Google won't show you the list of non-Google sites it knows you have visited, but they do track that via Analytics, Adsense, etc.

[crispinb]

Possibly a fair point (I only write 'possibly' because it's not an area I know that much about).

[Shivetya]

Because Facebook sold to an entity with the wrong political affiliation and we still have not passed the stage of one group in denial for why they lost and until they exhaust things to point fingers at it is not coming to an end soon.

We all should be highly critical of Apple's stance in China and we should all fear the direction China is going because a great many Western politicians like that direction too and simply are working out how to sell it to us, from think of the children, stopping exploitation, stopping hate speech, and more.

[rhizome]

Because Facebook sold to an entity with the wrong political affiliation

Can you clarify what you mean by "sold" here?

[_phaq]

He's referring to ads. They sold ad time to Trump during his political campaign.

Clinton and Obama als bought ads there, but the controversy is primarily about Trump.