[reolbox]

For 22 years I used toilet paper until I traveled to South East Asia where every toilet has a seperate sprinkler. After a few toilet visits I decided to give it a GO. Man, toilet paper feels strange and plain stupid now. Water is way cheaper, doesn't hurt your "behind" and I feel cleaner afterwards. Paper seems an invention to sell something we really don't need (by Mad Men :-)).

[tikkabhuna]

After our trip to Cambodia we wanted to bring the "Bum Gun" to the UK. For those who haven't tried it, it's the weirdest thing and sounds disgusting.

To quote a crazy Canadian we met, "if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it off with toilet paper, would you say its clean?"

That said, SE Asia really lends itself to the Bum Gun. Its warm and can be humid, so you're not really worried about being a bit damp afterwards. I can't imagine being in a suit in cold UK winter and using one.

Looking forward to trying a Japanese toilet with those sprays...

[Johnny555]

"if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it off with toilet paper, would you say its clean?"

If you had poo on your arm and rinsed it with a gentle spray of plain water, would you say it's clean?

If I had poo on my arm, I'd use soap and water to clean it then rinse well. Of course, if my arm was what was generating the poo, I'd probably be less fastidious about keeping it clean and free of poo. And I'd see a doctor.

[rocho]

> If I had poo on my arm, I'd use soap and water to clean it then rinse well.

That is why the only acceptable option is using a bidet, with soap of course. It boggles my mind that some people can withstand even the thought of cleaning themselves with just paper or wet wipes.

[deftturtle]

Animals don't use toilet paper or bidets.

[fredley]

Animals don't have oversized glutes that allow them to stand upright, and run long distances to catch prey, and a high fat/carb, low fibre diet that most humans have.

[atomical]

Ever had an intelligent conversation with one?

[VVyattPrentice]

>If I had poo on my arm, I'd use soap and water to clean it then rinse well.

This is the correct answer.

Baby wipes or go home.

[dominotw]

Plumbing wasn't designed for them in most places. Most of them are not really "flushable" like they claim.

[daniel-alex]

Thankfully we also invented rubbish bins to dispose of stuff instead of throwing it down our pipes.

[Raphmedia]

That's because people use "face wipes" instead of "wet wipes" meant to be used for the bum.

[infecto]

Nope. At least from all the articles I have seen from different waste treatment plants in America. Those wipes that are advertised as flushable don't breakdown that much and they just end up getting pulled out at the waste treatment plant.

[dominotw]

No. Not really. flushable bum wipes are not really flushable.

[Fnoord]

I'm not sure about which of the two is the best solution with regards to hemorrhoids but I use "wet toilet paper" in combination with normal (dry). Dry -> wet -> dry -> usually done. It works good enough for me, and I am pretty sure that a little bit of soap and water wouldn't make my hands clean if I had poo on them. Because when I wash my ass under the shower or in the morning, and it smells a bit like poo, that smell is hard to get rid of. The question is of course whether that's a problem from a hygiene PoV. From a smell PoV, I do not want to smell poo on my hands except from my newborn. That poo I don't mind.

[srean]

> gentle spray of plain water

gentle, my eye. Here its usually forceful enough that it seems it would fountain out through my head. IMO way better than smearing things around and calling it clean.

[VVyattPrentice]

>Looking forward to trying a Japanese toilet with those sprays...

Why wouldn't you just use the 3 seashells?

[andrepd]

>if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it off with toilet paper, would you say its clean?

Whoa...

[JustSomeNobody]

Do those sprays have the pressure and duration to really spray everything down?

I can poor water from a bottle of water onto the poo on my arm and I'd still think it'd be unclean. I'd need some positive pressure to think otherwise. Oh, and some soap.

[Idontknowmyuser]

I've been Tunisia where they had a hose like this in the hotel, as you can see it has variable pressure, and even without setting it to the maximum it's sufficient.

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/06/b7/48/74/...

Some of them also have variable temperature.

[peletiah]

Combine it with your hand and you get clean, even better when there's soap. Then wash your hands properly.

On our bicycle-journey through Asia we had a dedicated squeezable poo-bottle and poo-soap ("Kackflasche" and "Kackseife" in German).

[VVyattPrentice]

Googled "kackflasche".

Was disappointed.

[tikkabhuna]

10 minutes later he used the hostel toilet and came back saying that it had torn him a new one.

You know a high pressure hose that pushes back when you spray it? It was like that. Vicious.

In terms of duration, it was just like a normal tap, I assume fed by the local water supply so you're not limited.

I'd use it for max 10 seconds to feel fresh.

[Chris2048]

I'd say most people (in west) have shitty arses.

Sometimes, while in a toilet cubicle, I hear other people wipe once or twice, then leave - their arses are definitely shitty.

Me - I bring in a cup of water, and wet the paper to give my arse a proper shine.

[overcast]

Not everyone has messy shit. I often have literally nothing on the toilet paper. Increase your vegetables, and fiber.

[tslug]

Agreed. Switching to vegan brought my TP use way down. Becoming gluten-free, however, was so transformative down there that I'm still having trouble adjusting.

I usually tear off the sheets before I'm done, so that if I go multiple rounds, my TP is prepped. Usually, that means I tear off 3-4 strips of 2 squares each if it's thick paper, or strips of 3 squares if thin. After going gluten-free, I rarely end up using all the strips, and I'd say about a third the time, I'm done after using my first two squares of it, so the rest is wasted.

[dominotw]

depends on how furry your butt is. I have the south asian furry butt curse.

[overcast]

Nah, just doesn't come out all sticky. Definitely a hairy ass.

[Chris2048]

I doubt it has literally nothing on it. You can eat nothing but fiber, but bowel mucous is still dirty.

[blarg1]

Haven't you ever done a shit that when you wipe there's nothing on the toilet paper?

[Chris2048]

Nothing visually, I don't consider the paper clean.

[michaelbuckbee]

Some googling found this informative (and entirely SFW) "bum gun" video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V32m3FZbjg

[devmunchies]

> if you had poo on your arm and you wiped it off with toilet paper, would you say its clean?

My dad says the same thing but he uses wet wipes.

[aeorgnoieang]

Those things are supposedly hell on every septic, and even (older?) sewer, system.

[Cerium]

You can put them in the trash.

[mygo]

If you had poo on your butt, would you wipe it off with toilet paper and throw it in the trash?

No because it would stink up the place and someone can touch your poo while taking out the trash

[Fnoord]

> No because it would stink up the place and someone can touch your poo while taking out the trash

How about menstruation pads? Are you afraid to touch those as well when you take out the trash? Because what you said is true for anything which resides in a trash bin or compost bin. Heck, my plastic bin sometimes smells like rotten fish. It is disgusting. But that's what you get when you eat fish.

[Cerium]

Yes. I've spent time in countries with poor plumbing systems and picked up the habit. I've found that it does not stink up the trash since it dries quickly. Additionally, if you put the poo side down it all stacks up in the bin until you take it out. Since I started doing this at home I have not had to unclog a toilet.

[VVyattPrentice]

How do you get them from the stall to the trash?

[Karawebnetwork]

Women's bathrooms have trash cans in the cubicle.

[devmunchies]

you bundle it like a paper basketball and shoot it from the stall.

[josefresco]

You must be talking about a public toilet? I think most "normal" or home toilet routines go out the window when using a public restroom.

[devmunchies]

probably less so than tampons though, but that doesn't make it right I guess.

[VVyattPrentice]

Has he been able to solve the problem of bridging the gap between the bathroom stall and the waste bin? Ir does he flush them? Most stalls in the colonies don't have waste bins in the stall. So you are faced with the problem of how to dispose of your dirty nappies. If you walk out of the stall to the vin before going to wash your hands you will be on the business end of some odd looks. This why most wet wipers flush. There are, however, alternative methodologies.

[devmunchies]

He owns his own business (funeral home) so he has his own bathroom for employees. He's hardly ever at a public restroom so I don't know what he does. I recall him carrying around a 10 pack of disposable wipes so he probably flushes them.

[bhnmmhmd]

Agreed. They use water in Iran, too. Other than religious considerations (that only water will really clean mess), it actually feels better and cleaner.

Plus, their toilets have a different shape, something like this:

https://behsakala.com/image/cache/data/products/-پارمیس-گلسا...

As far as I've heard, this form of toilet is better and easier for colons.

[afroboy]

All Arabs and Muslim countries use water to clean too, and that toilet too is used by 90% in Arabs homes and in public toilet is considered must have since it's easy to clean.

[Chris2048]

A good spray helps clean the toilet bowl of poop too, which is ten times harder once it dries to the porcelain..

[tomcooks]

Easier to wash too, and to lose your smartphone into

[user5454]

But worse for your knees...

[badosu]

Squatting is a more natural position for evacuating

[chimeracoder]

A proper squat puts zero pressure on the knees. That's why people with ACL injuries are still able to do squats.

Grab a copy of a basic barbell weightlifting book, and you'll see - it'll say the same thing.

[aeorgnoieang]

Maybe what the other commenter was referring to was something like weak leg muscles that manifest as pain in or around the knee.

[zhte415]

A lot depends on the age from which you've been squatting. I don't mean weight-lift squats, just squatting on the ground.

Most people from Asia are able to squat pretty comfortably, comfortably as in heel on the ground and not exerting any calf or knee tension, having done it since childhood. Most Western Europeans and Americans can no, the heel of the foot doesn't rest on the ground and squatting is done on the ball of the foot therefore calf and knee pressure.

[nerdwaller]

After traveling through a decent portion of China I tend to agree. The design of the “facilities” (e.g. “squatty potty”) in a lot of locations made a few in my group question toilet paper all together. Though being back in the states there are a lot of weird looks trying to find ways to mimic the stance...

A few years after my time there I saw the “Squatty Potty”[0] on Shark Tank, but haven’t tried it. Anyone with thoughts?

[0]: https://www.squattypotty.com/

[carlmr]

I like Chinese toilets as well, but I think they're a hard sell here. They're more hygienic (no touching), better for health (in terms of poop position) and simpler to clean (just mop the whole floor and you're done).

[ivanche]

An honest question: how these handle when you have to drop a "scatter bomb"?

[loxs]

When you are in that position, it doesn't scatter, or at least my limited experience on the topic says so.

[carlmr]

Never had an issue, you just have to squat deep enough.

[dancek]

I use things similar to that Squatty Potty and it feels better for me. I discovered this a couple of years ago. Coincidentally we have brand name ones at work, but any stable platform will do--my favorite might be this kids' stool from Ikea: https://m.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/art/60248418/

[donatj]

Having not used such a contraption, it always seems to me that the same thing could be achieved by leaning forward without one?

[omgbananas]

I lean forward (elbows resting on thighs). I've always done it. I never even thought it was a thing not to lean forward until I saw/heard advertisements for the Squatty Potty.

That, spreading cheeks when sitting down, and a decent diet means almost zero clean up.

[dancek]

It might be possible, but at least for me achieving the same position in a different rotation requires a lot of strength (due to gravity). And I can't poop while flexing half of my muscles.

[23478s882u]

A squatting posture made a big difference for me. I get more thoroughly emptied out more easily. I literally need to go less often than I used to.

[jasonkester]

The "hose" is a recent innovation. You can still find the old version occasionally, consisting of a big bucket of water and a smaller bucket for scooping.

But yeah, once you've discovered the beauty of the hose, it's hard to go back. Worse is traveling in other tropical parts of the world with bad plumbing, where the solution to the same problem is "giant garbage bag filled with used toilet paper".

[weeksie]

Yeah, when I got back from spending about a year in SEA I immediately bought a TOTO for my apartment. Now I dread having to go when I'm out and being forced to use a barbarian toilet. I can't _wait_ for the States to catch on.

[akkat]

Do you dry yourself before putting your pants on? If so how?

[nashashmi]

This is the most important. Use toilet paper before and after water use to ensure cleanness.

[jm547ster]

The hand towel

[hn_user2]

Or TP to dry.

[VVyattPrentice]

I carry a portable electric hair dryer. It's rechargable and lasts about a day.

[O_H_E]

As an Arab and now not living in the Middle East. I feel just sick trying to clean with toilet paper

[lsc]

So, my current employers have the, uh, washlets you describe, real high grade ones with a heater and a dryer. And I use them for the wash cycle, but I've found that I still prefer to dry off using toilet paper; the air dry function, even though it's heated just takes to damn long.

[4ad]

Just like those stupid hand air driers at public facilities. God, how I hate those. Americans have it easy, in general paper towels are available even when the damn air thing is installed. But here in Europe, most often you only get the stupid air machine with no paper towels.

[krageon]

The high end ones take maybe 20s to dry your hands off. Properly drying your hands with paper towels takes at least as long and it wastes paper. What is your problem with an air dryer?

[4ad]

No, it doesn't take 20 seconds, even a 2 (two!) second wipe job does a better job at drying than 30s of air. Apart from that, air driers are incredibly unsanitary, spreading stuff everywhere.

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/news/20141121/restroom-h...

Also see this episode of mythbusters, which goes into much more depth than the synopsis on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters_(2013_season)#Epis...

And the high-end ones, which are only marginally better, are very, very loud. Loud enough to trigger tinnitus in myself, for example.

Paper towels don't "waste" paper, they use paper (of which there's no shortage of, in the world) very efficiently. Plus in Germany and Portugal (at least) they have these reusable cloth towels that move between two spools.

If I don't have towels of any kind, I just wipe my hands on my clothes. It's not great but it sure beats the damn useless contraption.

[distances]

> And the high-end ones, which are only marginally better, are very, very loud. Loud enough to trigger tinnitus in myself, for example.

I basically don't use air dryers any more due to the infernal noise of the new ones. I'd rather go with wet hands.

[neeleshs]

Or carry a kerchief in your pocket.

[VVyattPrentice]

This.

[dotancohen]

A side benefit of the paper towel is that in-swinging doors can be pulled with the paper, not your hand. Imagine how many people _didn't_ wash their hands then pulled that door.

[_asummers]

Trivially fixable by a little foot hook on the bottom of the door intended to be used to open the door after you're done.

[Rhinobird]

What if you have no foot? Or the foot hook isn't there? Or you have to turn a knob?

[4ad]

Plus pipelining.

[stedaniels]

You answered your own question. "The high end ones" all others take anywhere from 30 seconds to infinity. I can probably dry my hands on a paper towel in about 4 or 5 seconds max. I don't feel strongly enough about the subject to argue either way, just adding some more data points to your view on the matter.

[Illotus]

Paper towels are much more sanitary. Big part of washing hands is wiping the bacteria and viruses along with water into something. Drying just gets the water, leaves everything else.

[kqr]

No. It's a nice idea, but doesn't hold up. (Gustafson, Vetter, et al. 2000)

[Illotus]

I rather trust a fairly recent review https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538484/

[dalore]

Only one person can use it at a time, and it wastes energy. Paper is recyclable, and more need for paper means more trees. Paper is low tech and works, and is more hygenic.

[spathi_fwiffo]

I hate it when there are only air dryers in a restroom. Towels can dry anything. Dryers are special built for hands. (sometimes i like to wash my face)

also, the level of noise pollution they create is toxic. Especially the high end/high speed ones.

[qwtel]

the problem is that you are actively doing something with the paper towel, while you passively wait for the air dryer.

[emiliosic]

It's called Bidet, from the french word. Bidets are very common in southern Europe. Bidets are more common in Mexico and parts of Canada than US. Anglo regions are behind on the trend here.

[darklajid]

There are lots of places here in SG that have these toilets. They ... freak me out, tbh. Mostly because I have not the faintest idea how you'd use them and "So, how do you do your business" is not among the list of conversations I want to have.

This whole floor (hosting six companies I think?) in a prominent office tower has one shared male restroom. Two booths. One is usable for me, the other one the scary thing. Most people, locals included, fight for the single seat..

[inapis]

From Travel SE - https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3080/ok-were-all-...

[onetimemanytime]

>> Mostly because I have not the faintest idea how you'd use them

Once you get a stomach bug and you should have gone to the bathroom a minute ago you'll figure it out :) . Hint: It's like the old days, like we've been doing it for millennia, if not millions of years. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+use+squat+toilet

[pzs]

May be a naïve question: have you tried googling the topic?

[darklajid]

I honestly did. But the descriptions (just like the StackExchange link's replies) are utterly alien to me (squat..? How?) and I haven't found it in me to go on a video hunt (the StackExchange one links to something which supposedly is safe and helpful).

[hsrada]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dKkryfdtMNQ

Not sure how I feel about sharing this here but yeah, this should answer some of those questions.

The Youtuber is.. A 'comedian'..

[RichardCA]

Thanks, I was waiting for someone to post that one. :)

[Cthulhu_]

> (squat..? How?)

This is a thing for westerners; the squat position (with feet flat on the floor) is really hard to do for a lot of them, iirc mostly having to do with ankle flexibility (for me personally anyway). In countries with squat toilets the people are a lot more used to the position / motion. I guess most people could get by with doing a toe squat, but that's harder to keep balance.

[moosekaka]

this always amazes me...it is like telling me some population of humans cant raise their hands over their shoulders..

[pbhjpbhj]

Yes, ankles, after 18 months learning Shotokan karate I can almost do a squat now, kids can do it with ease. I think with a toe squat you can't relax as much, which makes it difficult to open your sphincter.

[Doxin]

Just pretend you're taking a dump on the floor. You stand over the hole and squat down any which way seems comfortable and just let your droppings... drop.

[samhain]

Maybe I'm weird, but I've been spitting on toilet paper for years.

[ivanhoe]

You can use toilet paper, and then in addition wash yourself afterwards. That's what bidets are used for by most of Europeans.

[theprotocol]

I'd be afraid of the sprinkler collecting fecal and other matter, and am not too eager to nebulize that onto my behind.

[m_mueller]

It's not really an issue. It sprays from an angle below that should minimize sprayback (no idea whether that is a word), plus you just clean it when doing the normal toilet cleaning. For sure is better than those overfull American toilets that welcome your butt with splash toilet water everytime you drop something.

[jakevn]

The $300 add-on unit I have does self-cleaning after every use. When the sprayer retracts, it again sprays, but since there is now plastic directly above it, it cleans off the sprayer head on the rebound.