[ramzyo]

I’m sorry but I just can’t line up my daily observations of some bikers’ and ebikers’ dangerous behavior in NYC vs that of drivers (who admittedly I have also seen drive dangerously) and the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws.

Call this some fallacy of observation or confirmation bias or whatever, but I see bikers biking the wrong way weaving between traffic on NYC streets, running red lights (generally when there are no cars, but hey, it’s still running a red light), and doing other dangerous-for-pedestrian things literally every time I go outside. A few months ago I was clipped by a biker going the wrong way through a red light as I was in the crosswalk. Almost a year ago a friend was hit full speed by a biker in the East Village and lost two teeth.

Of course a car hitting a pedestrian will be worse for the pedestrian than a bike in the same situation. But many bikers are dangerous too, at least in NYC, and when I walk the streets I’m more afraid of a biker coming out of nowhere than I am of a car doing the same.

I have a hard time understanding the knee-jerk reaction to marginialize how dangerous bikers can be when an article calls out this behavior. There’s always some counter argument about how dangerous cars are. They are both dangerous, now can we just admit this and start asking cities to police dangerous biking too?

[dpark]

> * and the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws.*

I’m also doubtful and suspect that the data is essentially cherry picked. Relative to distance travelled, I suspect cyclists do indeed break traffic laws more frequently. Especially if “severity” of violation is accounted for.

i.e. There’s often some jackass in a car who runs the red light shortly after it changes. However, despite the blatant law violation, it’s not that dangerous because it happens immediately after the light change and for better or worse, people expect it. Cyclists on the other hand will often blow through a light whenever they get there if they think they can make it through without getting hit, whether that’s right after the light changes or two minutes later. The car running the red light immediately after it changes is quite frequent but the cyclist running the light whenever it’s convenient is more egregious even if less frequent.

[orangecat]

the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws

I think it's that drivers break laws in more predictable ways. They may run red lights in the first few seconds, not come to complete stops when required, and aggressively try to turn right on red. But for pedestrians, those actions are easier to foresee and protect against than the minority of cyclists who completely ignore traffic laws.