[ArcticUnicorn]

"It’s been several decades since Daniel Bell wrote The Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism, but his insights have proven prescient. Ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations, destroying what conservatives value the most. They create a less human world. They make us less happy. They generate pain."

This articulates the feelings/observations I've been mulling over recently. Also the idea of opiate abusers being a self-selecting group of the "failed" areas of society was something I hadn't thoroughly considered. Very interesting. If opiates caused a more distinct rise in violet crime, would public policy be forced to respond similar to the other drug epidemics? (Though I might argue that those epidemics were just replaced with this one, yielding quieter and more easily ignored victims.)

[maratd]

> ever-more-powerful market forces actually undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations

Is there an actual example of this? I can't think of a single one.

[hebbonline]

Not a single one? That is unbelievable.

You could check out the article at top of this page since you’re so close.

Most TV shows or movies have numerous. Have you ever watched TV shows or...

Actually, since these things are so easy to find, I think it’s safe to assume you don’t even know where to start. We could start with your comments for inspiration.

I just copied the very first one in your profile becaue it includes a good start of what an example of this could look like.

“Start your own category, create software for it, then convince everyone that the category is important.”

This sounds like advice on how to navigate a market, which is an effort that will represent our force. There are many economic theories to explain why markets are the best environment to generate useful products. Can you imagine how your advice could lead to a product that is not useful? I can: if the category is not important but you succeed in convincing people that it is, what have we accomplished collectively? Nothing important! That is for sure.

Well, the problem about things like social stability, tradition, religion, and civil associations is they are important.

If your advice is enough to do well in a free-market economy, then that is good for you, and somebody else will do the important things. This is all fine and good assuming somebody else doesn’t fuck up.

But what if somebody else is an HN reader? And what if they come across your revalational advice, and realize they can just convince people things are important instead of doing the important things? They quit the important things.

Now there is nobody tending to important things: social stability, tradition, religion, civil associations which is a sure bet for havoc!

Easy shmeezy. It’s right under your nose if you pay any attention at all. Maybe you are an example yourself. Seems possible.

[mistermann]

Society splitting into haves and have nots due to technology, globalization, and a myriad of other things most definitely changes social cohesion. That's just one example, when (if?)people finally start paying attention there will be many more obvious effects.

[api]

The escalating offensiveness of media due to the fact that offensive speech gets attention and therefore makes money?

[maratd]

Let's agree that this is happening. Is there any evidence that this is going to "undermine the foundations of social stability, wreaking havoc on tradition, religion, and robust civil associations"?

People have been saying nasty things since forever. Some even in this thread =) Is there any evidence that it is "wreaking havoc" on our social fabric?

[gt_]

Your lack of responses is due to your posing of the question. Answers to this necessitate length and dependencies. Many earn volumes in the theoretical canon. Go have a look. Otherwise, Q&A is a two-way street.

[clairity]

while that quote is interesting, it also posits progressivism as the culprit, and by allusion, points to conservatism as the solution, but that’s plainly wrong.

it must be taken as a given that change (i.e., progress) will happen. you can thank the 2nd law of thermodynamics for that. so then the perspective must shift from “can we keep the world the same as we imagine it to have been in the past (while ignoring all the bad parts and negative consequences)?” to “how do we deal with a changing world, adapt to it, and focus our efforts toward positive change?” we just don’t get to sit still. life only happens in the gap between order and chaos.

the quote i prefer is

“The oxytocin we experience from love or friendship or orgasm is chemically replicated by the molecules derived from the poppy plant. It’s a shortcut — and an instant intensification — of the happiness we might ordinarily experience in a good and fruitful communal life. It ends not just physical pain but psychological, emotional, even existential pain.”

this articulates a mechanism by which opioid addiction lodges itself in the failed corners of society. so how do we fix that? it’s not by considering addicts criminals. the “war on drugs” experiment has proven that doesn’t work. instead, we need to accept the social responsibility of creating “losers” in the first place. we need to progress to the next level of societal structure that redirects folks back into meaningful and purposeful lives.

i think the stage might be set to move to a kind of globally-aware localism. that is, having people focus on their microcommunities (the 5-10 block radius around where we live in cities, a bit bigger in less dense areas). how do we organize homes, schools, businesses, offices, services, etc. in ways that reinforce our ties to each other rather than two-dimensional celebrities and fantasies of far-off wealth and fame that make you feel like you’re losing? but also use technology to learn from those far-flung places to improve your own lives locally. you only need a few people around you appreciating your efforts to get plenty of oxytocin to forget about the hard opioids.

[clarkmoody]

I would argue that the public school system is the strongest force in weakening "tradition, religion, and robust civil associations." Much of the schooling experience is designed to suppress individuality and encourage conformity to the state's ideals. And of course capitalism (the non-crony type) doesn't really play any role in the public school system.