[thephilsproject]

Some product descriptions continue to state that maps on the devices will update multiple times a year "for the lifetime of your device".

On its website, TomTom explains that "lifetime" means the "useful life" of a device: "ie: the period of time TomTom supports your device with updates, services, content or accessories. A device will have reached the end of its life when none of these are available any more."

Updates will be available for the lifetime, which is defined as until we stop providing updates.

(Unsure how to quote)

[Spooky23]

It’s amazing how companies are able to get away with bullshit like this with virtual goods.

There was an article in our local newspaper about a dude who bought lifetime brakes for his Mustang in like 1970 from JC Penney (!). To this day, he’s still getting free brakes, I think Firestone took on the business. With tech stuff, they would declare the lifetime to the be average lifetime of a brake pad!

[mikestew]

There was an article in our local newspaper about a dude who bought lifetime brakes for his Mustang in like 1970 from JC Penney (!). To this day, he’s still getting free brakes, I think Firestone took on the business.

Can confirm as an ex-Firestone mechanic from shortly after Firestone picked up Penny's repair business (in fact, the shop I worked at used to be a Penny's auto repair). If a car rolled in needing brakes, and they had the lifetime warranty, we put brakes on it. I was never tasked with trying to find ways to wiggle out of it. Nope, it was "hey, mikestew, '72 'stang out there, check the brakes. It's lifetime warranty, so if it needs anything we don't need to call customer, just put it on and let me know what you did." And because a "lifetime" job required that the customer buy calipers and rotors in addition to pads, Firestone covered everything. Rotors are shot? New rotors for you, no charge! Caliper frozen? New caliper, on the house!

Haven't worked for Firestone in about 25 years, but we still take our cars there for lifetime alignment (I can do brakes myself). No bullshit, no fine print, take it in once or twice a year, no questions asked. And I'll tell you why Firestone doesn't mind: they'll more than likely find something else that needs work (not trying to rip you off, folks, that's just the nature of mechanical things) and make some money off that. My personal observation was that folks also never took it back for an alignment until it needed tires, and therefore money in Firestone's pocket. IOW, Firestone's bean counters were counting on customers not actually using the warranty, and they were right.

Tilley clothing is another one who honored the lifetime warranty on two of their hats we had for twenty years. Filled out the form, paid eight US dollars shipping, new hats in a few weeks. My only complaint is that the new hats are...different. I dunno, maybe after some break-in they'll be like our old ones. Tilley claims to be like the Craftsman tools of old: if you're in possession of a hat, you're covered under warranty even if you didn't buy it. "Put it in your will!", they say. I assume that's true, because they never asked us for any proof of purchase.

[sundvor]

That's positively awesome; thanks for sharing.

Good luck to Tom-Tom with their definition of "life": "As long as we feel like it".

[icantdrive55]

There's a huge market out there for honest auto repair shops.

I'm a former mechanic, and usually astonished at what most shops get away with.

I've seen $1200 tune ups. (Six cylinder Ford Vallant, and the shop owner told my friend business was slow that week, and he needed money.)

To a Franchise owner at Aamco (San Rafael, ca) who told he the tranny was going into limp mode when he test drove it, and then brought me into the office to look at the cutaway model. (It was never even driven because he didn't have the key. Plus--when he realized I knew the lingo; he started kissing my ass. He knew he was caught. He was a new franchise owner, but that's no excuse.)

My point is there's some real business opportunities out there. An honest shop is gold. Its a very tough business though. I've even met some people who sware their "guy" is the best. They are usually the ones who are being taken the most.

[mikestew]

To a Franchise owner at Aamco

You know, I've been seeing investigative reports about Aamco's crooked dealings since I was a kid watching Morely Schafer on Sixty Minutes, and I am not a young man (in fact, I think Morely's dead now.) So I am continually amazed when I see Aamco in the news again.

It's not like there isn't good money in running an honest shop. I wasn't a mechanic for all that many years, but of those years I've known one mechanic that I wouldn't send my sister to. The rest are just working class dogs like the rest of us, trying to make a nice middle-class living. The other Firestone I worked at while I was going to school, as a "tire changer" and not mechanic, the manager was a every-time-the-doors-are-open church goer, and lived it. There would be no ripping off of customers in that shop. That shop made plenty of money.

So I dunno, maybe transmissions are a different business. And there will always be those for whom the good living of auto repair isn't good enough. Sure, I make a ton more writing software, but there are days I'd go back to turning wrenches. Much like software, someone has a problem, and I got a great deal of satisfaction out of solving that problem for a reasonable price. Personally, I never saw any compelling reason to be dishonest.

[reaperducer]

I have a pair of Koss headphones with a lifetime warranty. I bought them in 1991, and have sent them back to Wisconsin at least five times for repair.

When repair is not possible or practical, Koss sends me a new pair of whatever is the current equivalent model.

/ I'm not sure if they're still honoring the lifetime warranty, as I think the last time I sent them in was about eight years ago.

[shostack]

I used to do that as well when I owned a pair of cheaper Koss earbuds. It was ages ago so I might be recalling incorrectly, but didn't they charge a shipping and handling fee for all of that? If so, my hunch was they either came close to breaking even or even turned a small profit in some cases.

[reaperducer]

I've never been charged a thing, except my expense of sending them the headphones. I don't get an RMA or anything. I just put the 'phones in a box with a nice letter explaining that they're under a lifetime warranty and I'd like to have them fixed.

[cal5k]

*Lifetime is defined as the TTL setting on our DNS records.

[X-Istence]

Autozone does this with brake pads. If you come in with a set of worn out brake pads, they will hand you new ones free of charge.

I used to own a Kia Sephia that was known to have brake pad issues where they would prematurely wear at 15,000 miles or so, replaced the brake pads multiple times on that car like clockwork. The guys at AutoZone knew me well :P

[sschueller]

I thought legally in the US lifetime means at least 25 years.

[Waterluvian]

They out to outright ban "lifetime" claims and only allow claims of specific lengths of time. This is a great example of why they're dangerous to consumers.

[mikestew]

It's already been done with lifetime fitness memberships in the U. S. It's been a long time, like when this middle-agester was a kid and my Mom bought one, but what would happen is fitness places would then go out of business. I was too young to discern if the places just ran off with the money, or genuinely went bankrupt, but point is no more lifetime memberships.

They don't need to ban these claims, they just need to define "lifetime", either the lifetime of the device or lifetime of the owner. Or, as with the Tilley hats I mentioned in another comment on this article, as long as you have one in your hand, whether you're the one that bought it or not. Oh, sure, have some well-defined exclusions for abuse and the like. Run your Tilley hat through a woodchipper, and no new hat for you. (But if you run your hat through an elephant, they'll honor it if you're willing to dig it out of the manure. True story, they claim.)

[aluhut]

I hope someone sue then in the EU. TomTom is quite popular here in Germany but I don't see any news yet.

[compsciphd]

while, I'm sympathetic to your point, to play devil's advocate, think of it a bit differently as in "we'll never ask you to pay for map updates for this device". Of course that doesn't help you if the devices is working perfectly well and all you need are map updates

[TallGuyShort]

>> "we'll never ask you to pay for map updates for this device"

But to twist it around again, that's the same as, "eventually you won't even be able to pay for updates for this device".