[ZenoArrow]

> "Everyone also now has a way to communicate their needs instantly to a computer. Compared to what could be achieved with todays technology, the price mechanism is inaccurate and slow."

The price mechanism means that people have to make trade offs, and for anyone living outside of poverty, that's often a good thing.

To use a simple example, if you're a gamer you may want both a PS4 and an Xbox One, but if you only have the money to buy one, you have to choose which one you'd rather have. If you remove the price mechanism you've absolved the individual from making that choice, and you'll get greater demands for material goods as a result.

[TFYS]

Of course you'd have to somehow set limits on consumption in any system where resources are limited. The price mechanism isn't the only way to do that. You could for example have only one game system to begin with so there's no reason to own two. Or you could have public "libraries" for things like gaming systems where you could borrow anything you need, reducing the need to own things.

Resources should be allocated where they are needed the most. The price mechanism doesn't do that. If you don't have any money, a system based on the price mechanism doesn't know you exist no matter how great your need.

[ZenoArrow]

> "Of course you'd have to somehow set limits on consumption in any system where resources are limited. The price mechanism isn't the only way to do that. You could for example have only one game system to begin with so there's no reason to own two. Or you could have public "libraries" for things like gaming systems where you could borrow anything you need, reducing the need to own things."

Okay, but putting aside shared ownership and artificially limiting choice, how do you set limits on consumption?

Let's use a different example. Someone owns a car that they maintain themselves. Their car breaks down, but instead of requesting a new part to fix it they request a new car. How does the government choose which is the appropriate action to take? Before you answer, consider that this is just one decision out of millions that a government would have to make within the space of a month.

[TFYS]

If we know exactly how much resources we have, how much resources we usually spend on things and we ask people what's most important to them now and in the near future, we can calculate the allocation of resources that does the best job of satisfying peoples needs.

If a lot of people think new cars are important, then a computer can allocate a lot of resources into making new cars. This would of course mean we'd have less resources for everything else and peoples needs start changing as a result. If you can easily get a new car but notice that the quality of healthcare is decreasing, the next time the system asks your opinion on resource allocation you vote for more healthcare.

So in your example I guess there would be a democratically decided amount of resources dedicated to making new cars. If that amount is high, the computer would probably give him a new car as soon as one was available. If it's low, society would be fixing and sharing cars and using the freed resources on more important things.

[ZenoArrow]

So in other words, you've replaced money with votes. Will everyone have an equal number of votes? Do parents get more votes as they have children to support? Do the votes of locals have greater weight than the votes of people from outside a region where a proposed change is due to take place? How do people stay informed about all the votes they should be participating in? If someone wants to opt out of your proposed society, can they do so and still retain material resources?

[TFYS]

I didn't mean people would buy things with votes. People could just keep a list of things they need in order of importance and the system would only use those lists to calculate the optimal allocation of resources, for example.

We'd need to test what works best. I don't have the details of such a system because it doesn't exist. All I'm trying to say is that we could come up with other ways to allocate resources than the price mechanism with our current level of technology. What I just came up with is just one way you might go about doing it, I'm sure we could figure out a working system. Of course such a system would have it's own faults, but I believe we could come up with something better than the current system, where the "needs" of a billionaire are more important than the needs of a million people in poverty.

[ZenoArrow]

I'm sure your heart is in the right place, and I admire your optimism, but I just don't think what you're suggesting will be a society I'd want to live in.

The thing is, I used to think along similar limes to you. When I was in my 20s I saw the Zeitgeist films and found the ideas behind the resource-based economy to be compelling. A way to meet everyone's needs without relying on money. However, as time went on and I thought more about what living in such a society would be like, I saw that it wasn't the answer I was looking for.

To give you some idea of what changed my mind, I'd suggest we look at variety. As the phrase goes, variety is the spice of life. Centrally planned economies, whether resource-based or otherwise, would see variety as inefficient and attempt to cut down on variety. You gave an example of it earlier when I asked about the PS4 and Xbox One. Whilst it's true we don't "need" variety, it is something we collectively want.

For all its flaws, money gives people the chance to make choices based on what's best for them, with far fewer restrictions on what's possible. These days, I'd much rather see something along the lines of universal basic income than a resource-based economy, though I recognise UBI has its flaws too.