[arkh]

You just need to not give a fuck. It works for online interaction and it sure work for other parts of life. Care about what you can influence, don't about things you have no control over.

Someone cut in front of you in traffic: good for them. Someone insults you: heh, must be their own insecurities showing.

I think the only threshold for online interaction would be people threatening violence against you. If they do, file a police report then don't sweat it anymore.

Learn to not care about things and you'll endure a lot less stress. Then your life will feel a lot better.

[vanderZwan]

This advice is entirely oblivious to how the creative process works, and why people create games, music, literature or art in the first place.

It's also somewhat irritating to me, because it reminds me of how I was constantly told the same thing in the context of being bullied as a child. Which in the end is really about it being easier for adults to make the one bullied kid conform, than the clique of kids who do the bullying. It's basically victim blaming in disguise.

[gadders]

Well, one view is to consider it victim blaming. Another view is to consider it the offer of a strategy to minimise the upset caused.

[vanderZwan]

> the offer of a strategy to minimise the upset caused.

Ah yes, the "upset caused". Also known as "a complete lack of empathy for or insight into the situation by the person offering the advice, usually due to not really thinking about the problem at all".

At least, that's the only way I can imagine someone thinking to themselves "oh, this kid is being beaten up, his stuff is being destroyed or taken from him. The best strategy is clearly to be less upset about all that"

EDIT: But I guess you were talking about on-line trolling. Again, that advice shows a complete lack of understanding about the creative process. We are a social species, and a large part of why people do any kind of creative activity at all is wanting to share what you made.

Telling people to not give a shit about the response to your work is missing the point of why people do it to begin with.

[jmcqk6]

Not the person you're replying to.

>At least, that's the only way I can imagine someone thinking to themselves "oh, this kid is being beaten up, his stuff is being destroyed or taken from him. The best strategy is clearly to be less upset about all that"

This is a straw man. No one has claimed anything like that at any point in this thread. You are exaggerating their point to make your own, and it lessens the impact of what you're trying to say.

>Telling people to not give a shit about the response to your work is missing the point of why people do it to begin with.

When I create things, I create them because there is something inside of me that needs to get out. I don't create it for other people. I create because there is no way for me to contain it otherwise. It feels very good when other people like what you create, but I wouldn't call it the reason I'm creating something.

If you constantly seek validation from others, you are going to be let down and discouraged, because people won't consistently provide that validation.

That is separate from whether or not people should ignore bullying. If you see bullying happening, you have a duty to put a stop to it, report it, or otherwise address it. If you're getting bullied, you shouldn't ignore it, but report it to whom you can. But the sad fact of this world is that you're unlikely to receive justice for it. The only thing you truly have control over is your own reaction. Exert your control.

[vanderZwan]

You're on a website that functions by social interaction validated through votes of other people.

[meheleventyone]

I think this sort of thinking is far too fatalistic and basically throws people who cannot deal with abuse and hate under the bus to boot.

The platforms hate and abuse are delivered on are currently under human control. The idea we have no control over whether or not we receive hate and abuse is simply not true. The solution, moderation, isn't even new and is a core feature of all polite online spaces. HN is a good example.

[monkeywork]

moderation will never stamp out but the tiniest of hate/ignorance that will come. the only thing that will work is removing the one thing the trolls feed on... your reaction.

[meheleventyone]

I think calling these people trolls misses a significant point that they feel their grievances are genuine. See a bunch of the comments below defending abuse as a legitimate response. This is way more about cultural norms in terms of what is an acceptable way to communicate and moderation is supremely effective at establishing them.

Hate and abuse are definitely hard or impossible to eradicate completely but we can do a lot better than current social media platforms and places like the Steam forums are doing.

[_wdh]

Moderation is essential because by publicly making an example of trolls, you can change the culture to prevent it. It's the same theory as patching up broken windows to ensure that worse things don't happen.

[monkeywork]

I feel internet shaming is the wrong answer as it's a different side of the same coin. As much as these people are trying to tear down and essentially bully people with words in a negative manner -- those who shame those people end up doing the same thing back, and often take it to extremes where punishment is vastly out of touch with the "crime".

By shining a light on these groups you attract others to it. This is why (I personally feel) the extreme right and extreme left exist today in politics. When you highlight (even to shame) a group it galvanizes them and brings other loonies to their cause.

[_wdh]

I'm not talking about shaming people, I think that if you want to have a community that doesn't have abuse then you need the admins to remove or ban the people who post abuse and threats.

[LandR]

I'm exactly the same.

I just can't get myself worked up over most stuff, annoyingly though people around me end up getting annoyed at me becasue I'm not getting upset or annoyed. This can be very frustrating.

The way I see it is if something is happening and it's outside my control, why let it bother me. 1 of 2 things can happen.

1) I get upset and angry and my life, temporarily, gets worse. 2) I don't get upset or angry and my life doesn't change.

In both those cases I can't affect the root cause incident so the only thing that changes is my own happiness.

Why on earth would I then voluntarily reduce my own happiness / state of mind.

If someone flips me off, cuts me up in traffic, sends me an abusive message online etc Why should I care?

So when I have people around me getting annoyed because I'm not getting upset or annoyed by it, I feel like they just want to make sure I'm getting miserable with them. Which is a shitty thing to do to someone.

[EgoIncarnate]

> You just need to not give a fuck

Given this is an emotional issue, I suspect this is easier said than done for many people. Whether it be physical pain or emotional pain, some people are more sensitive than others.

[tremon]

Apathy is not a healthy approach to life in general. Forcing yourself to feel "meh" about things you really did enjoy once is soul-crushing in itself.

[collyw]

Not giving a fuck isn't the same as apathy.

My personal example which I am working on is cycling. A lot of drivers in the city are arseholes and think I should get out of their way if they are behind me and honk their horn (despite the fact I am a pretty fast cyclist). I used to get annoyed, flip them a finger and start shouting at them and they would usually shout back. That just gets me angry as well and doesn't really benefit anyone.

These days if I get honked at, I try not to get angry. I slow down to indicate that I heard them honking and I am not going to get out of their way just because they think I should. End result is the driver gets angry while I have a chuckle to myself at them for it. That's "not giving a shit".

[tonyedgecombe]

I don't think @arkh is suggesting apathy, quite the opposite in fact. Enjoy your art and don't give the naysayers a second thought.

[arkh]

This. Try to see the good parts of things.

Someone is cursing you about your work? First, that's just words on a screen so you can close it to not see it. Two, this person bought your production so hey! your bank account feels better. And last you got a vivid reaction out of someone: isn't creating games and art goal to make people feel something? Sometime it is negative but I think the best works are those who you either love or hate. Not the bland ones.

Seeing some good in most things is not an easy mindset to get to. But you can start by doing it as a joke until it can become natural. "Another rainy day" -> Temperature are 0°C and it's good for the plants so let's enjoy those facts. I totaled my car -> I have an excuse to ask a ride-share with some colleagues I fancy until I get a new one.

[ljf]

It is good advice unless you live in a country with a militarised police force. Then you spend time worrying if you or your family may get SWATed...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/calgary-woman-...