[losteric]

Sport vehicles go fast very quickly and handle well at high speeds. That's the fun part - acceleration. Getting punched into the seat off the starting line, braking into a curve, smoothly slalom through apexes, then rocketing towards the next set of curves... You've clearly never been in a proper sport car because that lesson is self-evident well below 60.

As an aside, has anyone else noticed how new posters are overwhelmingly pessimistic and reliant on dubious anecdotes?

[jdietrich]

I'd make a slightly different point - what makes a car exciting is handling.

There's a big transatlantic divide on this point. American sports cars tend to be relatively large and heavy, with huge torquey V8 engines and simple live-axle suspension. They're fast in a straight line, but they don't really handle in corners. European sports cars tend to be tiny and extremely lightweight, with a small and free-revving inline 4 and sophisticated independent suspension. They're not very fast, but they're incredibly agile and nimble.

If you want to learn to be a racing driver, you'll probably get taught in a Mazda MX5 Miata. It's the most popular entry-level racing car by a country mile. Mazda overtly based the Miata's design on classic British sportscars. In this kind of car, you can explore the limits of grip at non-lethal speeds. The lack of weight partly offsets the lack of power - you don't have a particularly high top speed, but you can carry a great deal of speed through a corner. Such a car richly rewards you for skillful and precise car control.

[justin66]

When it comes to driving on the street, the excitement you get from acceleration tends to trump the enjoyment of a car that handles really well. It's not anything inherent to one or the other, it's just that there are very, very few places on a public road where pushing the limits of a car's handling makes any sense whatsoever. On the other hand, even in a city a person can test the limits of a car's off-the-line acceleration, and that is usually a good way to get a smile or a laugh.

I have a car that handles well enough that it's popular for racing and it has always been a joy to drive, but the first time I drove a friend's very overpowered, automatic-transmission Corvette was quite an eye-opener. That's the kind of car where you can bend someone's mind with the performance without even breaking the speed limit, and without expending a lot of effort.

[jdietrich]

> there are very, very few places on a public road where pushing the limits of a car's handling makes any sense whatsoever

That's precisely why superlight cars with small engines and skinny tyres make sense.

Here in the UK, the normal speed limit outside of urban areas is 60mph. On a twisty country road, a base-model MX5 will start to come alive at well below that speed, especially in the wet. The basic engine is a 1.5 litre straight four producing 130bhp, so you can really use most of that engine on a public road.

It's more exciting because it's not very powerful - you need to give it plenty of revs and work through the gearbox to make progress. In a properly powerful car, you reach the speed limit before the engine has even had a chance to breathe. The tight handling and light weight allow you to carry that speed through a corner with confidence. Admittedly it does help if your country has roads with corners, which I understand may be hard to come by in some parts of the US.

There's a philosophical difference between making a car that adds some element of drama to your commute and making a car that's brilliant to drive just for the sake of driving. American enthusiasts are only just starting to fall in love with the hot hatchback thanks to the Fiesta ST, but here in Europe hot hatches have been hugely popular for decades.

[justin66]

My father's a lifelong Lotus Seven enthusiast, so I've heard this before. I'm afraid that when you drive something like a new Corvette or 911 Turbo, it bends your mind in some completely new ways. I don't think I'd buy one even if I could, but if my goal was to keep the occasional passenger entertained, something like that would be a nearly ideal tool.

There's no denying the Miata is an absolute gem. I am very happy that it is still made in this era of overpowered, huge cars and rocket-powered hatchbacks. Sacrilege: I know two different people who have shoehorned American V8s into early Miatas. Somehow I haven't driven that beast yet. I'm still not quite sure how it's even possible.

> Admittedly it does help if your country has roads with corners, which I understand may be hard to come by in some parts of the US.

On the other hand, you're at a great disadvantage in terms of population density. Finding a quiet road seems like it'd be a bit of a trick.

[jdietrich]

>On the other hand, you're at a great disadvantage in terms of population density. Finding a quiet road seems like it'd be a bit of a trick.

Surprisingly, it really isn't. We're extremely densely populated, but we also have very strict controls on sprawl. The UK has a peculiar planning policy called the green belt - there's a ring on the map around each city, beyond which any development is effectively prohibited. Outside of London, you're rarely more than half an hour away from open countryside.

For example, this road is about half an hour from the centre of Manchester, our third biggest city:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5976642,-2.0181352,3a,75y,...

As you might imagine, a Miata, a Caterham Seven or a classic Mini would be the perfect match for roads like that.

[TylerE]

I find the sweet spot is about 300hp.

Powerful enough that you can have serious fun in a straight line (0-60 in the high 4s or low 5s, say) but not so much that you can't have a decent thrash without getting into license-endangerment territory.

I've had a Golf R for about a year and have plenty of legal fun it.

[christoph]

You've touched my heart with this comment. I had a 1.8s MX5 for 4 years. Fantastic little car. Everything about it. Couldn't find a single fault with anything. Simply superb.

I now have a 3.4 Boxster S, which feels largely like a more grown up version of the MX5. Much, much quicker - put it in sports plus mode, fire up launch control, put the PDK gearbox into manual, switch off the traction control and it's a real blast, however, on public roads, it's simply scary at times. This is the real problem, it feels very anti-social (at best) to do that on all but the quietest of roads and outright illegal on most others. Hence I feel myself yearning for another MX5...

[git_rancher]

> As an aside, has anyone else noticed how new posters are overwhelmingly pessimistic and reliant on dubious anecdotes?

New posters are the next generation of old posters, that is unless they are driven off e.g. by being stereotyped.