[krrrh]

You’re not counting VAT which is 19% of most of what you purchase. Corporate tax is largely bundled into consumer prices as well, and depending on your consumption patterns, and transportations choices there are other taxes that apply. In no way is this list exhaustive.

[nikcub]

A good way to normalize it for comparison is tax income as a proportion of GDP[0]

The table on wikipedia[1] shows Norway, Finland, Denmark and Sweden at all over 50%. Germany at 44.5% while the UK is 34.4%, Australia at 34.3% and United States at 26%

[0] https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=REV#

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_reven...

[SyneRyder]

There's also the compulsory 9% Church Tax in Germany, unless you formally renounce your religion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/113...

Notably: "The changes include German banks now having to withhold the tax on capital gains of account-holders who are church members."

[germanier]

It's 8-9% of your income tax – so in reality maybe 2% of your income or less.

This tax is levied by the churches. You may be against the fact that they get this right because you support a more strict separation of church and state (which is not in the spirit of the German constitution) but this is hardly something the state is to blame for.

[reitzensteinm]

It's opt out, which is pretty evil. You can absolutely blame the state for that.

https://www.settle-in-berlin.com/stop-paying-german-church-t...

[germanier]

It is not opt-out. Everybody who pays has opted into the system (or in most cases their parents did[0]). Catholic foreigners might be surprised that the Catholic church is considered a single world-wide religious community. If they move to Germany they will be taxed even if they are not religious (because they haven't left – which is in some countries hard or impossible). This is a thing the Catholic church does to their members, not the German state.

[0]: It is not a regular contract but even those can bind you if your parents entered into them in your name.

[reitzensteinm]

You immigrate to Germany as an atheist with no affiliation to any church, but answer questions about your upbringing truthfully.

You're then taxed 2% of your gross income unless you pay a fee and visit multiple government departments. The money is distributed to private parties with little oversight on its spending. This is enforced by the same body and with the same penalties and rules as other forms of taxation.

I think at this point, we're arguing about the definitions of "opt out" and "enforced by the state". "Evil" is open to interpretation, but I stand by it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/41305s/church_tax_...

[germanier]

It's exactly what I said above: The Roman Catholic church is a single world-wide entity and if you become member in one country your rights and duties carry over to Germany if you move here.

> but answer questions about your upbringing truthfully

Whether or not you answer questions truthfully has no impact on taxation. You might get around paying it if you lie but you are still liable for the tax.

> same penalties and rules as other forms of taxation

It is not, here is a decent publicly available primer: https://www.hrr-strafrecht.de/hrr/archiv/08-08/index.php?sz=... In short: The usual tax offences don't apply to church tax.

[SyneRyder]

Ahh, I didn't realize it was a percentage of income tax. It was explained to me by Germans as tithing, according to the idea of donating 10% of your annual income to the church.

I'm not necessarily for or against it, and it does seem pragmatic for the government to automatically collect it on the church's behalf. The part that does seem strange to me is that you have to renounce your religion to opt out of the automatic deduction, but I understand it's a cultural difference. I'm more used to the idea of contributions as voluntary.

(I'm not German or religious, just an Australian who is a fan of Berlin & Germany and often considers moving there.)

[_s]

You don’t have to “renounce” your religion or anything to that affect, it’s a checkbox on your income tax / wage form where you choose whether you wish to pay it or not. From what I remember it amount to taking ~1% or so off your salary.

[germanier]

You actually have go through a formal renunciation process (which is done at a state authority but your church will get notified and will not be pleased). That checkbox doesn't actually do anything, it is just your declaration of the official religion status. Lying on tax forms is, well, not the best idea.

[_s]

Ah I see - I moved over as a foreigner (no previous religious affiliations) so that’s probably why I didn’t have to do anything beyond the taxation declaration.

[zaarn]

Formally renouncing your religion is easy and can be done fairly quickly, I've done it.

[_Codemonkeyism]

The 9% are on the income tax, e.g. 9% of 40% not on income.

[a-saleh]

so .. 59% tax then?

[CodesInChaos]

You can't just add the percentages for income tax and VAT. If you were to combine a 40% income tax and a 19% VAT, you'd end up with 49.6% effective tax. (1-(1-0.40)/1.19)

(I'm not arguing that this naive computation makes sense, you pay different VAT rates or no VAT at all, depending on what you buy. I don't think you have to pay VAT on rent, which is a significant part of the income for many people and reduced VAT on most groceries)

[germanier]

For the middle-class the estimates are that about 8% of your income goes to VAT.

[a-saleh]

Thanks! My brain kinda failed me there :)