[ploxiln]

There is a funny kind of contradiction going on here.

On the one hand, men in the tech community have been told it's never OK to use/share/endorse images of attractive women with "lots of skin", in any work or tech-community context, because it objectifies women, makes them uncomfortable, and pushes them away from the tech industry.

On the other hand, men should respect how women present themselves, and welcome them into the tech community. Still, this doesn't save you if a moral busybody walks behind you when you're looking at this twitter profile - it's very conceivable that a guy could get in trouble or ostracized for "ogling scantily-clad women".

Hell, surely you remember the two guys at pycon 4 years ago, some woman behind them heard one tell a (rather tame) "dongle" joke to the other, generated outrage on twitter, got them fired, etc.

In this modern era where moral outrage is more in fashion than ever (in recent memory anyway), the only winning move is not to play.

[Mz]

I am a woman. I think she ought to tone it down a bit. I blogged about that.

Edit: ironically this comment was being ignored as long as I had the disclaimer in it that I am routinely accused of victim blaming for trying to empower women. I removed it because I also get constantly accused of making things about me. The second it was removed, a personal attack in violation of the guidelines was posted as a reply and now my comment has been downvoted.

Here is the blogpost in question in case anyone wants to read it instead of knee-jerk assuming I am just some sexually uptight prude:

http://michelerebooted.blogspot.com/2017/11/how-i-try-to-dir...

[couchand]

I think there is a concern in our society that both men and women tend to spend an inordinate amount of time judging and commenting on the appearance, tone, and other superficial characteristics of women. If we're to make effective progress as a society we need to be very careful about this.

My reading of awesomepantsm's comment is that it conveys the idea that it doesn't matter what any of us think about what someone is wearing, we should be concerned with the thoughts they are expressing.

I never saw your post in the original form, only in the shortest version and then with the most recent edit. I found your blog post on my own, and I see it's much more nuanced than your comment here (I suppose that's to be expected).

Your blog post seems to indicate that you wouldn't dress like that. Fair enough, the rationale you describe is illuminating. But how does that extend to a normative expectation on the behavior of another? That's what I think is problematic.

[Mz]

I wouldn't dress that way because I am 52 and I don't look like that. If you've got it, flaunt it. If I looked like that, I might be doing exactly the same thing.

But the main point of my post is this: years of trying to get meaty engagement on HN has taught me that men will tend to see me through the lens of sex first and foremost. It has proven to be counterproductive to either expect men to never think of me that way, or to actively encourage that focus or cooperate with other people framing me as primarily or solely a sex object.

It was written in hopes of helping women think about how to effectively navigate a man's world. It has nothing to do with suggesting a normative anything.

I am saying that a woman's sexuality is hers to do with as she pleases. In my experience, that is an extremely radical position. Lots of men would like women to be more free to say yes to them. That doesn't mean they like it when someone like me says "They are free to use it any damn way they so choose, your agenda to fuck them be damned."

[couchand]

Perhaps I misinterpreted your previous comment "I think she ought to tone it down a bit."

[Mz]

As stated in the blog post, if I were her, I would tone down the internet stuff to be less in your face blatantly sexual in terms of framing of photos while continuing to dress exactly the same way.

It is a position of "I can dress any damn way I want for my own pleasure, no I am not your whore."

It is her body. Some pictures currently frame it as a toy for any internet stranger. I would stop doing that one thing. That's it.

[couchand]

I guess I didn't make my point clear: I think there's a big difference between "I would do X" and "she ought to do X".

[awesomepantsm]

That's nice, why should I care what you think about how some random person in the 7 billion people in the world should dress.

[sctb]

You have a history of posting unsubstantive comments here. Could you please not do it again? We ban accounts that clearly have no intention of following the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[Mz]

That's nice. What makes you think I care to hear about your open contempt and dismissiveness of my opinion?