[_wmd]

Their web application isn't the canonical source of whether they owe you money or not, a court decides that. I don't know in which jurisdiction Freelancer are based, but if there is a low cost small claims procedure, sounds like that would be worth you time.

In the UK in a variety of circumstances you can petition a court to issue a wind up ("liquidation") order for a company if it refuses to service its debt to you.

[vidarh]

Norwegian bankruptcy law also used to (probably still is, but I haven't worked in Norway for nearly 20 years) have a similar system where employees had that kind of protection at no cost for non-payment of wages.

All you need to do is to file and the company would need to show up in bankruptcy court and explain why they should be put under administration (and really the only valid reasons would be that they don't owe wages (any more)).

Very effective at ensuring companies protect wage payments - I repeatedly had it drilled into me from accountants when on the other side of the table how vital it was to ensure salaries payments went ahead no matter what other difficulties (the priority order was roughly taxes that it'd be an offense not to ring-fence, electricity/phone/internet because they could just shut down and wipe you out, and salaries - everything else was lower priority because it could be fought or negotiated over).

If you'd miss salary payments you had no recourse other than to beg and/or borrow or come to an understanding with employees.

The one thing giving you some flexibility was a government insurance pool for salary payments that'd cover up to 6 months, so if you treated people nice they'd be willing to give you some grace knowing their salaries would eventually get paid (though claiming back takes time).

It's a very useful way of leveling power in cases where managers might otherwise see employees as the easiest to push around.

[walshemj]

the op isn't an "employee" in this case probably not even a "worker"

[vidarh]

The point was not that it's exactly the same - I was responding to the comment above, not to the article.

But even so in many countries there is the concept of "deemed employment" that may or may not give rise to employment rights. Basically: if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it may very well legally be a duck.

[literallycancer]

They presumably still have a contract where he does work for compensation.

[hedora]

I found their EULA, and it has some crazy stuff in it. For instance, they can terminate your account becase:

... 8) to manage any risk of loss to us, a User, or any other person; or

9) for other reasons.

And if they terminate the account they can keep all the money they owe you. Also, it claims contractor aren’t their employees. Instead they are “unsecured creditors”.

There’s also a bunch of stuff about how they can pass chargebacks through to sellers, and if you already withdrew the money, you have to deposit it back into your account.

It looks like the business model is to force skilled laborers to work under pseudonyms so that Freelancer has complete ownership of the contractor’s reputation and professional credentials. I’m shocked that this is a thing!

The Eula claims on one hand that they’re not a party to the contracts, but they go to great lengths to make sure the contractor and the employee don’t share their real world identities with each other (they even audit the contents of the files produced as part of the job, eavesdrop on audio/video/text chat/emails/etc).

I think this forces them to become a payment intermediary, which means they do have to deal with lots of thorny issues.

Welcome to the sharing economy, I guess.

Link: https://www.freelancer.com/info/plainterms.html

[xelxebar]

IANAL, but as far as I understand EULA don't have the last say on things like this. The courts decide if the terms are reasonable.

Apparently, there is no repercussion for putting non-enforcable conditions in an EULA, so companies are encouraged to throw as much self-serving protection language in there as possible in the off chance that it will stick.

[hedora]

I believe that is correct (I am also not a lawyer).

They are international, so I wonder if they can venue shop to some country where this is enforceable and first world courts don’t have much influence.

[fblp]

Freelancer is publicly listed on the Australian stock exhchange and they have a head office there. Hopefully the public attention this story is getting will push them to change and seek resolution with this person. But the Australian legal system would also be an option if the contract has been breached.

[twic]

A friend of a friend got such an order for Tesco, our biggest supermarket chain, a few years ago. Needless to say, their invoice was paid very soon after that.

[TomMarius]

Can you share more? Sounds interesting, especially as I'm reading your comment inside a Tesco store.

[sgt101]

In big companies there are often things like this, if you have 5K people working in finance or procurement and 1 in 100.. and you run it for 10 years... well you can see where this goes with the tail cases. Things like the person handling the case has a break down, or someone didn't put a transaction lock in the workflow, or two accounts got set up because there was a delay and someone helpfully restarted the set up process.

[twic]

Not much, i'm afraid - i can't even remember who it was, it was a tale told in a pub, i think. They'd done some work for Tesco, sent an invoice, Tesco messed them around trying not to pay it, so they brought a case in court, Tesco didn't bother sending anyone to contest it, and this person got the winding-up order. When that is issued, official letters go to the directors, and apparently that got their attention.

[aidos]

I've twice been involved in sending winding-up orders, or at least sending a letter before action to say that a winding-up order comes next. They're an effective and cheap tool in the U.K. to shake dishonest companies looking to avoid/delay paying their bills.

[az123zaz]

I would love to know more details as well. I have a UK based client that has gone silent with significant unpaid invoices. Can you share details of how to file such an action?

[lsmod]

Thanks for the reply.

They have a registered office located in Australia.

It was a relatively easy job (took me about an hour and a half) and I only charge $75. So, not sure if it'll be worth the hassle.

[ensignavenger]

It may not be worth the hassle directly, but please consider the impact on the economy and society overall in your decision. Jerks like that do things like that because they get away with it.

[zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC]

From my experience: First, set a date by email when you expect payment, if that doesn't happen, send registered mail to their office demanding in no unclear terms that they pay what they owe you plus the postage for the registered mail. Payment was prompt.

Oh, and don't do business with them.

[lsmod]

Thanks for the reply. I might give this a try.