[protonfish]

Controlling resources is the most effective way to wield and display power over others. It doesn't matter how many resources exist. As long as society is based on authoritarian hierarchy, there will always be haves and have-nots.

[mcny]

On a more personal level, I ask people whether they think of same wages for everyone. Many people think that a supervisor or a manager should make more money than the person reporting to them. I ask why and I have yet to find a satisfactory answer.

[TeMPOraL]

I don't think the "should" plays any role here. In my opinion, paramedics, nurses and doctors should all earn shit ton of money; so should miners, and janitors, and garbage collectors, and other people doing dangerous and/or socially necessary jobs. And entertainers should earn way less than they do. But here we are.

Supervisors earn more because, through the way the job market works, they can ask for more. That's all there is to it.

[protonfish]

Social hierarchies are created and maintained through displays of dominance and submission. Earning more money is simply that: a domination display.

[conanbatt]

In general the supervisor or manager provides more value than an employee under his command. Exceptions to that are at least as common as employees having higher wages than managers and supervisors.

[js8]

I don't understand why do you think this is the case. (I am one of those people who thinks people should have the same salaries, btw.)

What exactly do you mean by "value"? Can you give some examples?

To add: I don't think there is a meaningful comparison of importance of two professions that depend on each other. It's like asking, which part of the car provides more value for the user? Is it the engine or the wheels?

[conanbatt]

There is an entire field of study about this, with maybe millions of students.

Why a wage is what it is might be one of the most described, modeled and studied things out there. A simple explanation is that the supply of people that can do the managing is lower than the demand for it.

Clearly, the cases where managers earn less than the people they manage follow the same rule (i.e. sports coaches, movie directors, etc).

About the comparison: It depends, if you have a car without engine and a car without wheels, which one is easier for you to fix.

[js8]

> A simple explanation is that the supply of people that can do the managing is lower than the demand for it.

But I don't want an explanation of that fact, I have my own. I want an explanation, why some people (who are actually not in the management) think it is right. It is a moral question, not factual one.

[conanbatt]

As this conversation goes, its nature, it lacks any concept of morality. Why is a rock a rock is not a moral question, and it doesn't merit one in my opinion.

I think you have to reveal what is the moral question you have about preventing that natural result, and I can try to answer why such a thing doesn't bother me at all.

[pault]

For better or worse, production workers are seen as fungible and managers (ideally) have deep domain expertise and knowledge of the company's operations that allow them to multiply the efficiency of the people working under them. I am aware that in reality this is not always the case.

Edit: In your car analogy, the management aren't the engine; they're the driver.

[TeMPOraL]

And yet when you need the car to move people or cargo from one place to another, then suddenly the driver becomes as fungible (sometimes even more) as the car itself.

I don't think there's really any moral justification for managers earning more than their subordinates. It's all power and scarcity at play. Managers get more because there is less of them and they are in position to ask for more.

[pault]

In this (stretched to breaking) analogy, drivers aren't necessarily fungible since most of them will drive the car off a cliff, and the great ones will turn a Ford into a Ferrari.

[js8]

> For better or worse, production workers are seen as fungible

Everybody in this thread agrees that it is indeed the case. However, the mystery is why some people see it that way.

> managers (ideally) have deep domain expertise and knowledge of the company's operations

The point of the car analogy was that without workers, managers are nothing, just like car without wheels or engine is useless. In that situation, why would you say one is more important?

[marcosdumay]

Value is a too ill defined concept. I would say that the manager has more leverage on the destiny of the company, thus you want a great manager more than you want great employees, and thus you have to pay them more.

Except that this is not exactly true either. Some times it is, other times it isn't. Yet the salary relations never change.

[mcny]

> Except that this is not exactly true either. Some times it is, other times it isn't. Yet the salary relations never change.

I think the meta is for "intellectual"/"mental" workers you have to pay someone enough that they focus on the task they need to work on rather than spending mental cycles on how to afford to pay for rent or food or vaccines/formula for baby.

[Helmet]

It isn't ill defined. Ideally, and I would argue in most circumstances, wages are a strong approximation of the marginal revenue product, just as neoclassic theory states they should be.

[jules]

Because the person paying both the manager and the person reporting to them judges that to work better.