[casey_lang]

I've always wanted to be fluent in a second language and have tried in the past, but I always end up with the same problem.

While I recognize that the only way to gain conversational skills is to actually have conversations, they terrify me. Engaging in small talk with strangers in my native language is hard enough. Trying to do it in a second language seems impossible. Even watching the demo video from the link, all I could think was "this is awkward".

I would almost rather there be a sort of script or game around the conversations, so they're not relying on my ability to be interesting while also trying to do it in a different language.

[kmtrowbr]

I speak French and Spanish both fairly well. I learned them both, over the past 20 years. Studied them in college, then lived in Lausanne, Switzerland for a year, then lived in Mexico for a year. It all started off when I had a giant crush on a French exchange student in high school.

> conversations, they terrify me

It is awkward! But that's why you should do it. Because, it doesn't matter. You have to stretch yourself. You have to get comfortable with being bad.

Everyone feels embarrassed and weird when learning a second language. They feel embarrassed that they are bad. But, of course they're bad, they never learned. It doesn't mean you're stupid. In fact, if you can force yourself to do something hard and you can force yourself through the awkwardness in the pursuit of a goal, to me that's a high indicator that you are smarter than average.

For me, learning a second language was so important in terms of the humility (being as a child again, accepting being bad, being the foreigner, being "that one weird guy"), then the recognition that the foreign culture & foreign people are so very similar to my own, and then the ability to see my own culture from another perspective. It's so good for your brain and there are so many fascinating little details, just the poetry of the foreign language and its words ... the way the words echo English in some ways and then in other ways are different.

In a practical sense it would be hard to point to specific things that the foreign language did for me, but in another sense it was one of the deepest, most soul-expanding things I could have done. Gave me courage, a lot of perspective, many friends, and many good times. Anyone who wants more specific advice feel free to write me: good luck, go for it, it's worth it!

[inkubus]

so true can't upvote more

[schacon]

This is the problem I always had with tandems and some tutors as well. One of the things I like about using our system is that all the exercises are guided.

They have instructions, you can advance at any time, there is always an explicit task or situation or game to play. Sometimes the tutors read a story and then ask you questions about it, sometimes there are word games, sometimes there are situations where you're told what you need to do and you just try to role play. Always after you've at least minimally learned the vocab and grammar needed to do it.

Nowadays I will sometimes wander and just have a random conversation with a tutor, but when it's finished, I just click 'Next' and get a new thing to try. It can be a little scary at first, as any in-person meeting or class environment often is the first time, but it becomes fun and comfortable pretty fast. You really aren't expected to be interesting (as many of my tutors can attest, I rarely am :) )

The compilation video (is just from the video feeds, but I removed the actual exercises we were doing. It's entirely guided. These were just sort of random conversations that I happened to venture into as an aside from the main curriculum as I got more familiar with the tutors as a way to illustrate how my spontaneous conversational skills improved over time.

[casey_lang]

Thanks for the clarification! I've signed up to be notified when Spanish is added and will give it a shot

[tchaffee]

You should get some help with your terror of these conversations. Having learned a couple of languages myself, and having tried just about everything, I have to agree with the author of the app that getting into real conversations is by far the fastest way to learn a language. Nothing comes anywhere close. The other tools like spaced repetition via Anki or another tool, are somewhat important. But they just help reinforce what you learn via conversation.

It can be done. I used to get nervous in a private business meeting with more than two people. Through practice and pushing myself I've made it all the way to speaking in public in front of hundreds of people on many occasions. Tackle your fear of these conversations first because it's an important life skill. I'm not saying you have to make it all the way to public speaking. But at least get very comfortable with small talk among a few people. There are even courses for it. Then learn a new language after.

[andai]

You may be interested in AJATT [0]. It recommends a method based on the Input Hypothesis by linguist Stephen Krashen, which basically says it's better to read and listen before writing and speaking, and that producing input too early can actually be harmful in the long run (picking up bad phonetic / structural habits).

In other words, find media you enjoy in your target language (books movies series music YouTube etc) and spend as much time as possible consuming that media.

The guy who wrote AJATT (All Japanese All The Time) had earphones playing Japanese audio 24 hours a day for almost 2 years. Along with learning the writing system, after 18 months of this method he aced a phone interview (got mistaken for a native speaker) and got a job at Sony. And he's pretty introverted / shy.

Might be worth checking out!

[0] http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/

[kakarot]

Sounds like an interesting method but I am getting php errors when I select Japanese from the list of languages.

[ddevault]

I found native speakers who are also trying to learn English. We set up a timer and switch languages every 5 minutes. This system makes it so much easier to speak with language exchange partners. Even if you're awkward and flustered in your second language, you only have to deal with it for 5 minutes. The best cure for awkward use of a second language, making mistakes and asking lots of questions, is to frequently switch to confident use of a first language - giving corrections and answering questions for your partners.

[mh-cx]

Not sure if it helps, but you're not alone. I'm a quite introvert person and often feel that things that interest me bore others and vice versa. This can be a real problem if you have to communicate.

I'm learning Czech now just for fun for about a year and tried to find tandem partners with an app called Tandem. I had some chat partners but they were text only as I find it much easier to have a conversation this way. Of course this didn't go very well. Most of them stopped responding after a while.

So right now I'm not sure what to try next. I definitely need some “hands on“ experience but don't know how. There really should be more offerings for introverts. I'm sure there's a big market for that.

[KGIII]

Why is it terrifying? I may have some experience to share and you might be able to get something from that.

[mark_edward]

Probably social anxiety

[KGIII]

It's going to be tough, but I suffered quite a bit.

How'd I move past it? I started small (I was still rather young) and performed in a band. Eventually, I'd even sing. I am a classical guitarist but played rock, mostly.

Anyhow, I used to vomit and shake. I used to be truly afraid. I used to be scared of failure and of making errors.

So, I first started playing for people. It'd be a while before I was in a band and on stage. The first stage was small and had maybe 50 people in the audience. I threw up and made it onto the stage.

Over time, I realized that most audience members aren't accomplished musicians and won't actually notice a small error. Learning to play through the errors helped.

Eventually, I could walk out on stage, sing, talk to the audience, and actually put on a show instead of standing off to the side and concentrating on my playing.

What I'd suggest, and they are just suggestions, is hitting up something like an open mic night, a comedy club that has such, an open mic poetry reading, etc...

It will not be easy, but these days I'm outgoing and will talk to most anyone. I don't have any social anxiety and, if I do, I now have the confidence to just bluff it.

That same confidence has helped in many areas. It certainly helped with dating and in business. I've played in front of some large crowds and have spoken in front of some pretty large groups of people.

What it took was starting small and building up the confidence. What it meant was being able to interact with people at a much greater level.

I've since learned to be an active listener, which really helps. Open-ended questions about things they kno about is a great way to interact with people. It does require that one listens and give the others a chance to speak.

But, yeah... It made me toss my cookies, sweat a bunch, and I even fainted once. However, confidence grew quickly. It is absolutely not easy.

I don't know if that will work for everyone, and I assume it won't, but it worked for me. You have to make yourself do it the first times.

The impact it had elsewherein my life is amazing. I'm now very able to just converse with strangers. I now initiate conversations with people. In fact, I'm pretty much the polar opposite of how I used to be. I was a shy introvert who was unable to make many friends and didn't like to be social. These days, I'm a freakin' social butterfly!

So, maybe they can take something from that and try it?