[jetpacktuxedo]

>I get it completely. It's nowhere near as done up as say, Seattle or Boston. It's because it has an industrial past.

Seattle also has an industrial past, and more importantly, a lot of it is still industrial. If you pop open google maps and zoom in on Seattle's waterfront, essentially everything south of Yesler Way is shipping and other industrial uses. Additionally basically everything south of the stadiums is pretty industrial, even further inland.

From looking at Toronto, it looks like the Port Lands area you are talking about is pretty similar to the Sodo area in Seattle I was talking about, while your Harbourfront Centre and Bathurst Quay are more like what people usually consider the Seattle waterfront, with lots of parks and some restaurants, near what I can only assume is your downtown area?

The biggest difference that I see is that you guys appear to have a _lot_ of parking lots, and your rail lines and a big expressway appear to run right between your downtown and the waterfront.

[52-6F-62]

You've got me there. I've only been to Seattle once and was promptly exposed to the lively harbour area as that's where we arrived by ferry from Victoria. I mean, there's a ferris wheel! And it was night so it was all lit up. Toronto has some nice features, for sure... maybe it was only the difference.

The Gardiner Expressway is a notorious design flaw with criticisms spanning decades -- people just rely on it too much now to change it. Though it's now crumbling and needs repair, there are some propositions for beautifying that area.

The rail lines have been there for a very long time, though in different spirit, maybe.

This whole conversation has reminded me I haven't spent much time down around certain parts of the waterfront in a long time. The expressway is a major psychological block for a lot of people. It makes it seem so far away. In seattle it felt like a short walk from halfway up downtown because of the features all along the walk. Walking beneath the Gardiner here is not a thrilling experience for a downtown. That's one difference I can note for sure, if we're to compare properly comparative regions of the cities.