[IcePenguino]

I have to agree completely. Autopilot is miles ahead. While I'm waiting for my 3 preorder, I took a test drive a Model S. I haven't felt as moved by a technology like Autopilot since I first swiped on the first iPhone.

Coincidentally, we're in the market for a 2018 Odyssey as our family car too.

[yourapostasy]

Tesla Autopilot 2 failed to impress me for my specific use case. I have elderly parents, and city-street capable Autopilot would have made a sale at the test drive; the constant cognitive strain of defensively driving is very stressful for them though they put up with it for now, and such a feature would immensely add to their quality of life.

When I took the Tesla test drive in a Model X with my parents, the rep took pains to educate us about the limitations of Autopilot. Lane following in the highway, below 50 mph around curves, and doesn't recognize traffic lights in the highway. Can't avoid collisions below 7 mph. Can't lane follow in city streets. Can't self-drive on main city thoroughfares. I'm probably missing the message, but I don't see how this is that much more revolutionary than a Honda Sensing suite that I could purchase in a 2018 Odyssey [1]. For all the Reality Distortion Field is putting out from Tesla, I was expecting more.

As it was, I can see value if I sit in rush hour traffic on the highway for an hour or more each day, each way. But unfortunately, that is not my use case. And I can get the same tech on other more mature platforms to address the bulk of the value for that use case.

A lot is riding on Tesla's promise to bring full autonomy In The Future. I fail to see how they are besting Waymo at productizing full autonomy or even taking the next incremental steps towards that goal. If I wasn't in software and following what Waymo et al were doing to move towards full autonomy, then I would probably be dazzled, but I'm struggling to figure out how Tesla's driver assistive tech is getting us to full autonomy faster than Waymo.

I'm on the Model 3 waiting list, but that test drive has me seriously re-considering a 2018 Honda Odyssey instead. I'd welcome feedback on what I missed.

[1] https://automobiles.honda.com/sensing

[carlivar]

Odd. I drove in a Tesla and the owner showed off the Autopilot by having the car stay in a city street lane and have the car stop itself as the car in front of it stopped at a red light. When the car in front continued on, so did the Tesla.

My Odyssey can't do that.

Now I'm confused why Tesla would sound so limited, unless they are trying to cover their ass legally on how you SHOULD use autopilot versus how you CAN use it?

[yourapostasy]

Hoping Tesla owners will jump in here with clarifications/corrections. My understanding is you can engage Autopilot as long as there are lines to follow, but it gets dodgy in many city street driving situations [1], so many owners simply follow Tesla's advice and only engage Autopilot on simpler highways. By the time you get to the point where you have to cognitively engage all the time supervising Autopilot for the odd situations, you might as well only engage adaptive cruise control.

[1] https://www.quora.com/Does-Tesla-Autopilot-work-on-city-subu...

[r00fus]

Did you consider (for your family car) a Chrysler Pacifica? It's a PHEV minivan with 33mi electric range. Sure not fully EV, but close enough for grocery grabbing and some commutes.

Our 2012 Sienna is doing well and doesn't do too many miles, or I'd have considered upgrading.

[carlivar]

Yes. Chrysler has made some very puzzling choices with the hybrid. Like no memory seats. On a $40k+ car. My wife is over a foot shorter than me so that's really weird. Maybe we shouldn't weight that feature so highly but it has very real practical convenience for us.

[r00fus]

Yeah, I don't get that. I suppose even on the top-line ($46k) trim it's not there?

Personally, we don't share much - she drives hers, I drive mine and only share duties in the weekend.

With our separate commutes, and a PHEV and and EV we could literally not visit gas stations except on road trips.

[carlivar]

Correct. Not on any hybrid, even the 2018, no matter what trim.

[siavosh]

Off topic - but curious of why Odyssey > Sienna? ...as I'm having a hard time deciding.

[carlivar]

Android Auto and Apple CarPlay is in Honda (and lots of other cars). Toyota is currently in a state of rejecting these integrations, which I think is foolish.

[IcePenguino]

Haven't done serious research, just reading some reviews online and going to the car show. I think I read that the Odyssey rides more quietly.

I also like the 2018 Odyssey's visual refresh. Sienna hasn't changed in eons it feels like. Inside, I wasn't a fan of the second row seat tracks on the Sienna.

[robotresearcher]

Did you test a Mercedes and Audi as well?

[IcePenguino]

I did not. I don't foresee these two with a car in the $25k (after incentives) price range with semi-autonomous driving. And unlike the top level comment, I really want something fully electric (for the planet).

[Animats]

Don't forsee Tesla getting to $25K. The Model 3 really costs $50-$60K, and the incentives are going away.

[vultour]

I'd also suggest Genesis [0]. Almost S-class level in terms of features and comfort, with easily half the price. It's a luxury brand of Hyundai, so as a fan of brands like Mercedes I was skeptical at first, but damn is it a good car.

[0] https://www.genesis.com