Ask HN: I'm a 19 year old high school dropout

[jaredallard]

I'm 19, I've been programming since I was 10 years old. I can work with node, Docker and a ton of apis/DevOps stuff. Though it's not super relevant here.

I recently got into the final stages of an interview, and may have a job offer shortly. I'm worried if I should take it or not. I currently live with my mom and she says I shouldn't because not having a diploma can really hurt my valuation down the line. However, I also see this job as one I can easily do that pays $60k/yr in Seattle, so it's ok for a junior role.

What should I do? I want to take the job and get experience, but I also feel I should either get my last year of high school done, or get the GED... But I don't want to waste time on it as well.

[mindcrime]

Take the money. Programming is one career where, for many firms, experience still trumps academic credentials. Get a programming job, succeed at it, stay there a couple of years, and barring some major change in the macro-economic environment, you won't have much trouble finding other jobs even without a H.S. diploma or college degree. That said, it wouldn't hurt to complement your experience with some academic credentials, even if only an associate degree from the local community college. As somebody else said, consider night classes if you can.

You can also look at taking Coursera, EdX, Udacity, etc. courses to help fill out your resume. They might not count "as much" as a regular degree to some employers, but as somebody who is very involved in reviewing resumes, interviewing, and influencing hiring decisions, I can tell you that they are considered at some companies, including at least one very large computer company you've definitely heard of.

[wahern]

  Programming is one career where, for many firms, experience
  still trumps academic credentials.

That becomes less true every year, unfortunately. And it's entirely predictable. There are millions of middle-aged and elderly adults today who as young people enjoyed employment in a growing sector with minimal formal education, only to find themselves economically stranded when the sector matured and shrank.

Counseling a young kid _not_ to get a GED is indefensible. Life is a lottery. Just because you can see a path forward today doesn't mean that path will remain viable tomorrow. And despite the increasingly rapid pace of changes in our modern economy, a high school diploma or equivalent has remained extremely valuable. Among other things, it will be difficult to pursue post-secondary education at accredited institutions without a GED.

Kid, there's no reason you can't take the job _and_ get your GED. And remember: formal education isn't for learning stuff you could learn on your own, it's for learning stuff you couldn't or wouldn't bother learning on your own. That's why it's simultaneously so difficult (in the sense of willing yourself to do the work), yet so important. It's a cruel world out there[1] and you want to acquire all the tools you can, especially easy ones like a high school diploma or GED.

Also, always remember success is more visible than failure. Similarly, people who succeed without credentials are much more visible than those who didn't succeed or who suffer significantly diminished earnings power. I can assure you, as somebody who has worked in IT _without_ a STEM degree for almost 20 years, and who makes much more than the median compensation in Silicon Valley, that engineers with a STEM degree enjoy a significant advantage, notwithstanding people like mindcrime and myself.

[1] It's cruel in the sense of being unforgiving. Many people, perhaps even most people, will enjoy a comfortable existence with nominal effort. But it only takes one illness, one accident, one crime, or one some-other-event to drag you to the bottom. Climbing out of a hole is immensely more difficult than falling in, and it's at times like those when decisions like you're facing now will matter most.

[jaredallard]

Thank you, I really wanted to hear from people involved in hiring and viewing resumes as that's where I'm most worried it'll fall apart in the future. My plan all along has been to make sure I finish education alongside my work, GED to then college classes if possible. Thanks!!

[cjbprime]

Unpopular opinion: you'll probably find that people who went to college will tell you to take the job, not realizing how college helped them (honestly it sure seems like it wasn't that directly useful in retrospect), and people who dropped out of school will tell you to finish school first. How are those of us with degrees supposed to know what life would have been like if we'd never finished high school?

How many more months would it take to finish high school? Could the company not just wait until your last required day for your start date?

[HD134606c]

Good point, I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. Almost like a "grass is greener on the other side" type phenomenon. I wonder if there's a name for this?

[jaredallard]

Unfortunately it'd take 1.5 years to finish, or I would ask such a thing. I dropped out because I went to full high school but didn't get credit for two years of it and was not going to make it up. I was a bit reckless.

[cjbprime]

Finishing high school at 21 certainly sounds strange. It sounds like you should take the job.. in part because you've already gone two years down this road of not finishing schooling.

If you can find a way to combine the job with a path towards college, seems like it'd be ideal.

[jaredallard]

Clarifying that I didn't get credit because it wasn't adaptable with public school because it had a unschooling approach.

[gamechangr]

Take the 60K job. You can always go to community college at your own pace to settle the quest to learn and make mom happy. A degree no longer leads to a certain job offer these days, so take the job, if they offer it to you.

Get a few years experience and no one will care if you have a degree or not.

Plus it never hurts to spend a little time developing yourself. You may decide to go a whole different path (like a lawyer or doctor) and may wish that you didn't go into debt before you exposed yourself to more ideas (like programming as a profession). Make an informed decision, unlike 50% of college students these days.

[pizza]

Have them say no to you, before you say no to yourself, imo. At least then you can always still go for those other options afterwardsif it doesn't work out, but also if it does, right?

[hourislate]

Work during the day and attend night school and finish up your HS Diploma. There is no reason you can't do both. You can then decide if you want to pursue post secondary education part time.

[mindcrime]

I believe in some places community colleges will accept you even without a H.S. diploma / G.E.D., although some "remedial" courses may be required depending on test scores. In theory it's possible to get a college degree without ever having earned a H.S. diploma first. Heck, as far as that goes, I believe it's possible - in principle - to get a Ph.D. without getting a H.S. diploma, or anything else, first although it would certainly be a rare accomplishment.[1]

[1]: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/17841/phd-witho...

[sgeneris]

It's the conflation of education with job training that is pushing America down the drain and Trump is only one consequence of it.

The purpose of education is not to prepare for jobs, but to produce knowledgeable, reasoning, civilized, compassionate human beings capable of critical, independent thinking, which is what America most needs, not ignorant coders who can be manipulated to blindly program everything in sight, totally unaware of the inhuman, oppressive and exploitative implications.

[Mz]

My understanding is this guy is a high school dropout who never got his GED:

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jacquesm

He seems to be doing okay for himself.

Keanu Reeves is also a high school dropout.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keanu_Reeves

[ismaelbej]

From my experience having a diploma is a huge boost in job hunting, at least until you have more experience.

Any company will have no problem in hiring you if you do not have a diploma but have credential from your work you have done previously or you are well know in your area of expertise.

But the longer you are out of high school the harder it is going back to finish it and get a diploma. Sometimes life happens .

[sgeneris]

Education is NOT a piece of paper for job hunting. It is development of intellect. Most coders without education have none.

[dontJudge]

Go for the 60k job. Seriously. This is your best option for your immediate income and future value.

You will have a head start over your peers who won't even enter the work force until age ~23, with college debt to boot. Go for it and don't look back.

The path to career advancement is to have a job, learn everything you can, then hop when you find another offer with a big bump in pay.

[jaredallard]

In case anyone was wondering, I ended up getting the job :)

[keithchambers]

Believe in yourself, take the job, work your ass off, learn all you can, and you’ll be making $200K in 10 years.

Look me up when you get to Seattle and I’ll give you some pointers.

[jaredallard]

I actually live in Seattle right now, and throughout Washington my whole life, which is why I got into programing (thanks Redmond!)