[HalfwayToDice]

Norwegian and USA societies are vastly different. There is absolutely no reason that something that works in one country will work in the other.

For instance, look at the gun ownership/gun crime rates.

I want to add another comment, which is slightly more difficult. You say that your daughters school "has over 30 nationalities, and that it's not a bad thing". I admire you for this. BUT I don't think it's representative of how Norwegian society is, judging from my 6 months working in Oslo.

[marcosdumay]

> There is absolutely no reason that something that works in one country will work in the other.

Nope. There are plenty of reason to expect that, and it should be the default assumption. People don't become aliens just because they were born at the wrong side of an imaginary line.

If you would like to protest that assumption, it is up to you to provide data.

[ejolto]

> For instance, look at the gun ownership/gun crime rates.

Could you expand on this?

Norway ranks at 6th place in number of guns per 100 inhabitants and 39th in number of firearm-related deaths per 100,000 population per year. The US ranks 1st and 11th respectively, having 3.6 times the number of guns per 100 people and 6 times the number of firearm-related deaths per 100,000 people compared to Norway. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r...

[HalfwayToDice]

According to those statistics, Japan has a higher gun crime rate than the USA, looking at "Firearm-related deaths per gun per year".

My opinion is that those statistics are not very useful.

[zimpenfish]

I don't know how Wikipedia shows that - following the links at the bottom gives 33599 US deaths in 2014 with 270-310M guns for ratios of 0.0001244 - 0.0001084 deaths per gun.

For Japan in 2014, 6 deaths in 2014 with 710K guns for a ratio of 0.0000085 deaths per gun.

Double-checking, the US has 5600 x more deaths with 380-435 x more guns for a ratio of 12-14 more deaths per gun.

[ceejayoz]

> Norwegian and USA societies are vastly different.

Maybe this a good way in which we could be a little less different.

> There is absolutely no reason that something that works in one country will work in the other.

It working in one country is evidence that it may be a good approach, worthy of experimentation/testing. Not reflexive dismissal.

[mrow84]

> Norwegian and USA societies are vastly different. There is absolutely no reason that something that works in one country will work in the other.

Can you elaborate on which social differences you think might make it difficult or impossible to implement a Norwegian-style justice system in the USA?

[tyfon]

You need the whole social structure that goes with it, not just the prison system.

It includes the social security net, health care system, education, low corruption etc.

The corruption part is actually quite important. Even if you do not call lobbyism corruption it has the same effect and people can see that decisions are not made "for the people", but for the money. This drastically lowers institutional trust and will affect all of society.

[mrow84]

None of those things ("social security net, health care system, education, low corruption etc.") are necessary conditions for the USA though, and if Americans were willing to consider rational arguments for prison reform then they might also be willing to consider rational arguments for reforms in those other areas. It's not obvious to me that those things represent vast social differences, per-se, but that is obviously a matter of interpretation - I was really interested in hearing HalfwayToDice's view on what that phrase meant.

To respond (with a question) to your point, do you think that any of those areas can be successfully reformed individually, eventually making it possible for the USA to reform its prison system, or do you think they are all so interdependent that none can be changed without changing the other?

[tyfon]

I agree that they are vastly different and I don't think you can expect the prisoners that have been conditioned to be animals to change overnight. I'm not saying the way used here is the ultimate solution, however it seems to work better. In the presentation you can see that a hardened criminal has a very long path through the system before they are released.

In regards to the society. There are always many different views and situations, however mine is not uncommon. I know there are some that do not look favorably on this but they are from my experiences in the minority. Most people I know are more in line with this man[1]. Personally I think that a diverse society is a strength rather than a weakness.

I am a native Norwegian so that might have something to do with my experience and I won't say you have not had another in Oslo.

[1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev...