[j0rd]

I personally think ecigs are an interesting experiment in free markets.

A bunch of like minded people who had a habbit which was the leading cause of preventable death coming together to figure out a way to kill themselves less.

Have there been things in the industry which were poisonous and could kill you over the course of it's history. Yes. Lots. Have those been slowly fased out as concerned consumers voice opinions, yes. Ni200 wire is a good example. Battery mooch is another.

The lack of regulation has certainly led to it being more dangerous for uninformed consumers, but it has also lead to lots of independent entrepreneurs innovating fast in the space.

Personally I see it as a great example of free markets vs. regulation. I also think it's only been able to exist because it's in a market which of its own is hazardous to health.

Also this entire industry as I understand it came from China.

[craftyguy]

So your argument is that because e-cig users are coming from one harmful product, that we should do nothing to prevent the new product from causing undue harm, and that eventually (decades?) e-cigs will become safer because someone (who?) will eventually phase out the harmful ones?

Why not stop wasting time and lives, and prevent the harmful ones from being produced/released?

[JamesBarney]

I don't think he's making the argument that on principle there should never be any e-cigs regulations because cigarettes are harmful.

The algebra for e-cig regulation is # of people saved by regulation - # of people killed by regulation(people who smoke more cigarettes because of the increased cost, and decreased variety of e-cigs)

And because cigarettes are sooooo dangerous even a small increase in smoking can causes the second term to overwhelm the first.

[j0rd]

Because it stops innovation.

Ni200 which is a pure nickel wire was invented for temperature control. Required a specific device and chip to use as it has almost 0 resistance. Some stupid uneducated people or vendors sold it and and used it in non temperature controlled devices and poisoined themselves (not fatally), or blew up their batteries on non-regulated devices.

I just started vaping last month, and while I bought some kanthal wire, I also bought some ni200 and Titanium wire, which is dangerous if not used correctly. I personally didn't know, but also didn't use it until I looked it up.

With that said, ni200 wire did invent temperature control, which is a method of vaping these days.

[snuxoll]

316L stainless steel is a much safer option than Ni200 or titanium wire, shame it's not more commonly used (Kangertech sells 316L coils, but they're awfully hard to find compared to the Ni200 ones).

[j0rd]

Personally use SS316L now. Hard to find though.

[snuxoll]

I think regulations are certainly warranted, but the ones the FDA has implemented are heavy handed. I don't think anyone in the industry is opposed to common sense regulations.

[tlb]

The tobacco industry has completely failed to improve safety, because [long historical discussion elided]. There are lots of dubious additives in cigarettes that might enhance the flavor somewhat, but don't seem worth the health risks. I worry that the e-cig industry will go the same way, if we take the view "there's something inherently unsafe about it, so users forfeit all their rights to safety".

The motorcycle industry bifurcated, with one segment trying to maximize safety while still being fun, and the other focused on looking bad-ass with little regard for stability. That's a possible outcome for e-cigs, with some medical-grade and some vape-nation-grade.

[dsfyu404ed]

>there's something inherently unsafe about it, so users forfeit all their rights to safety

I absolutely hate when this happens via regulation.

Consumers should be presented the information required to choose for themselves. If people aren't making the choice other people want them to make then incentives and presenting information that pushes people toward the "right" choice is still better than legislating what a product must do.

Let people choose but incentivize the right choice.