[pjc50]

The answer seems to be "toxic masculinity".

(Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.)

> For one thing, boys’ schools are more violent places, concluded the study

> Boys also reported worse relationships with their male teachers

> male teachers were three times as likely as female teachers to say they were dissatisfied with teaching

> "Most of the problems I face with male teachers is that they want to yell at kids, to humiliate them.”

> The separation of students, teachers, and administrators into single-sex public schools may serve cultural and religious purposes, but it seems to create an unintentional ghetto for boys

> “Boys don’t feel that school can necessarily help them reach manhood.”

> In order to avoid all-female cohorts of students, Sultan Qaboos University, Oman’s only public university, now has two sets of admission criteria: one lower bar for men and one higher bar for women.

(affirmitive action!)

While I've been quote-picking I've noticed that this article is really nicely structured. The first sentence of each paragraph makes a point, then the rest of the paragraph introduces supporting statements.

[tomp]

> (Since I had to clarify this last time: the term refers to expressions or expectations of masculinity and masculine behaviour that are toxic, not a claim that masculinity is toxic in and of itself.)

I'd suggest that the term itself is toxic (and/or sexist). If you think otherwise, can you suggest examples of (stereotypically) masculine behaviours that aren't considered toxic, but positive by the mainstream public/media? Also, can you give any examples of "toxic femininity" behaviours?

If either of these is "no/none", then I'd prefer if you (and everybody else) avoided using this term.

[zbentley]

> Can you suggest examples of (stereotypically) masculine behaviours that aren't considered toxic, but positive by the mainstream public/media?

Sports. Military Service. Working Fathers.

[novia]

I'm not the OP, but some examples of toxic femininity I've heard are:

- Being passive to a point of causing harm through inaction

- Gossiping/body shaming/putting others down with words

The positive masculine traits should be obvious, but I'll list a few:

- Bravery

- Competitiveness

- Independence

- Confidence

[acomar]

Confidence and self-assertiveness, emotional stability, perseverance and drive. There is absolutely a positive form of masculinity that gets obscured by all the crap.

[BorgHunter]

> Also, can you give any examples of "toxic femininity" behaviours?

The idea that women should be subservient and avoid conflict at all costs would be an example of "toxic femininity". It's a mirror image of behaviors that come under "toxic masculinity", though, so I'm not sure if the term has any utility.

[hectorr1]

Positive masculinity: Discipline, risk taking, steadfastness, strength, mortal courage.

"Toxic" femininity: Gossip, hysteria.

[vorotato]

You haven't thought about this much have you...

[thesmallestcat]

Hear hear, and I'd prefer people stop overusing "toxic." Not everything that's bad, or that you disagree with, is "toxic." The person who screws with your team dynamic is not "toxic."

[Jtsummers]

"toxic" is not a bad word. It's a perfectly appropriate word to describe many things, including "toxic employees". Toxic means poisonous. It is quite possible for a person to be poisonous to a community (family, relationships, friendships, workplaces). They bring the group down, they disrupt the relationships between people ("poisoning" them). Often by their words: pointing out issues and exaggerating their significance, constant harping on specific topics and inability to move on. Sometimes by their actions: inability to meet expectations, inability to keep promises or obligations.

The term may get abused by some people who just want to call anything they dislike toxic, but we shouldn't throw out a perfectly good word (and associated phrases) just because you think "toxic" is toxic.

[forgottenpass]

"Toxic" is vague and imprecise in a way that raises the likelihood that multiple participants in a conversation will have different interpretations without noticing they don't all agree on what it means.

This lack of clarity is unavoidable in all communication. We can't transplant thoughts directly from one brain to another. But I find that words like "toxic" convey an assessment, rather than description, in contexts where that level of abbreviation is not helpful.

If the more-precise descriptor of behavior was used in the first place, the toxicity of that behavior will likely be self-apparent. But if "toxic" alone is used, we either have to circle the conversation back to pick up the better descriptor, or just assume that the speaker is right.

Toxic is a bad word because it's become a go-to choice for poor articulation. Using it conveys an impression that an assessment of "toxicity" has been made off-screen, but is broad and amorphous enough that I can't trust it implies anything more specific than a snap judgment.

[vorotato]

Toxic strictly means any behavior in a conflict or disagreement which erodes the relationship or discussion. Hope this helps. So for example, toxic behavior within a team is behavior which erodes the team, it's toxic because it damages that relationship. If you don't care about that relationship, you might not care if its toxic, because you don't mind if it dies. That does not mean it's not toxic though.

[forgottenpass]

>Toxic strictly means [...]. Hope this helps.

It doesn't. That's a gigantic category, and one degree removed by being an assessment of a behavior rather than a summary. -- Of course the assessment is important in it's own right, but it such a lossy description it's rarely a substitute for more concise descriptors.

[vorotato]

Telling people what words to use in a dialogue is toxic. :V

[gkya]

Second this. I'm from Turkey, we don't have gender separation in education, but your quotes hold. Also, being geeky at school is mostly a feminine thing, and not caring about school is way cooler. The result being girls usually do better in most circumstances.

[e40]

I wonder if this has the effect of making males feel resentment toward females, and thus making the already great number of problems between males and females even greater.

[gkya]

Wrt Turkey we have many different cultures coexisting (even though we pretend otherwise) and teh answer depends on which one you pick. But for the more poor it has an indirect effect, where the general ignorance of common working class recent emigrant men provoke lots of tension in families, economical and not. But blanket statements in this regard wrt Turkey is like talking of Greece, Italy, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia as a single cultural entity.

[Bulkington]

Would women's significantly superior graduation rates to men's in NCAA basketball qualify as 'toxic masculinity'? Or benign disinterest? Not that disinterest can't be toxic...

http://nebula.wsimg.com/63037e2d226dc6cdac787a498f2ddaf6?Acc...