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by jacksoncarter 5821 days ago

  Reddit is a classic example of this approach. 
  When Reddit first launched, it seemed like 
  there was nothing to it. To the graphically 
  unsophisticated its deliberately minimal design 
  seemed like no design at all. But Reddit solved 
  the real problem, which was to tell people what 
  was new and otherwise stay out of the way. As a 
  result it became massively successful.
I'm not quite sure Reddit is exactly "massively successful." They just posted the other day about how they aren't making any money. In a capitalist sense, it's not very successful if they aren't making any money.

So how do you define success? Is Arc successful if you open a web page and then 30 minutes later try to submit a form and get "unknown link" or something to that effect. It seems massively broken to me.

I'm not trying to pick on pg. I'm trying to present the alternative which is this: survivor bias. pg may have been in the right place at the right time with viaweb. As an incubator, pg probably made money on reddit, but conde nast has almost certainly lost money on reddit, so I'm on the fence about that.

Continuing on, I think it isn't unsurprising that putting $15k or so into 118 startups over the past 5 years would lead to one or two successes. pg has the benefit of being the magnet, or is it magnate? All the best ideas come to him, but there have only been a small handful of "massive successes" turned out. With his social network and contacts, quite frankly, I expect more big successes than I've seen.

How successful is pg, really? Do we know?

I suppose, really, my point is this: If there was a science to this, then it should be repeatable. Since it doesn't appear that pg has repeated his viaweb success in over 10 years, I wonder where is the science? Is pg just someone we choose to listen to because it feels good? He makes hackers feel good and important and understood? He can empathize with us, so we lend him our ear?

But are we wasting our time?

I love hn, I love listening to pg on stage talk about startups. It's like chicken soup for the startup soul. But maybe I'm being misled. Maybe it's just feel good, irrational stuff that isn't practical or beneficial -- and perhaps even harmful.

How do we know we won't be listening to him and then 10 years from now, we find out he's lost all his viaweb money. He hasn't been able to keep the startup chuck wagon turning out profitable businesses or something like that and we wasted all this time trying to replicate his success because... well... he writes a lot and it feels good to read it...

5 comments

This essay is mainly based on the common folk wisdom that you see everywhere, on iteration and solving the actual problem: 37signals. Steve Blank. Fred Brooks. esr. extreme programming. Moore. In Search of Excellence. Linus. [off the top of my head]

Reddit is successful, in that it's valued by many. It was successful for the founders [I'd dearly like to know how much they got, to an order of magnitude]. It's only 5 years old - it took Amazon 10 years to become profitable, google began in 1996 was incorporated in 1998, but didn't even start serving ads til 2000 - which accounts for almost all revenue today. So I think it's too early to call reddit "not very successful". [It would be interesting to have data on how long it typically takes for "successful" startups to become successful.]

I do disagree with pg that the essence of reddit was "to tell people what was new". Slashdot already did that and other news sites. Reddit's (and Digg's) innovation was that everyone could vote on comments. [But pg has far better information on reddit than me, so I'm left wondering why he thinks that...]

That's alway the question when listening to authors/bloggers: do they just write well? Or do they actually know what they're talking about? One of the reasons I love Stack Overflow was that it was a validation of many years spent listening to Jeff and Joel: turned out they do know how to create wonderful (and very successful) programs.

YCombinator does seem more successful than you mention though: they've turned out a lot of companies that, while not always huge, are making money. A few of them are even game-changers in their industries, like Scrib, Posterous, Justin.tv, Dropbox.

"... So how do you define success? Is Arc successful if you open a web page and then 30 minutes later try to submit a form and get "unknown link" or something to that effect. ..."

I observed this in 2007FEB22 , you can see it here ~ http://www.flickr.com/photos/bootload/398269769/ and the classic response ... "... wouldn't have been a timeout; we probably restarted the server ..."

Though I wouldn't call a broken piece of a webapp (hackernews) a failure of Arc.

I agree, it's not Arc, it's the webapp. And it does seem bizarrely unprofessional (I often consider my comments for a long time, so I almost always get the timeout - I'm being punished for thinking!). There also had to be a substantial outcry before we got a "search" link.

Yet... HN grows and grows... it is reported widely... luminaries routinely post here... and here are you and I.

pg has said he is careful to focus on what matters (eg. spam; ranking), not what seems to. It appears to be working. And it exactly supports this essay's thesis, of working on looking professional vs. what's important. Maybe it's a bit like undergraduates handing in essays in a fancy folder?

Nice valid points you have made here. But, i still think looking for small overlooked problem to solve in what ever sphere of life can be a science that is repeatable. If you add good execution, good product marketing and the right company culture on top of providing the tool to solve the over looked problem.

Were there no mp3 players b4 Ipod. Was there no Lotus 1-2-3 b4 excel spreedsheet. Were there no other search engines prior to google. So really providing the best tool to solve the problem is not enough to guarantee success.

Well, he can only give his opinions, based hopefully on his experience. The best way to find out is perhaps to build your own experience, do your own trial and errors and see what works for you. Then maybe you are in a position to judge as to whether it is merely feel good talk or it actually has substance to it.