[chickenfries]

Visit a library in a low-income area (where people need them the most) and see the kinds of computers people use to hunt for jobs, do their homework, etc. I've been to a library that was running windows 2000 on TWO ancient Dells with with CRT monitors in 2015. And the two computers they had were being used by adults and students. There is so much to be gained from improving libraries.

[stillsut]

Let me give you a hypothetical company IT department: while you are allowed to work there with any education background, only an MBA can be a manager. How do you think they would perform at IT tasks?

Who runs libraries? People with Masters in Library Science. I expect severe budget and certification crises would come to any library that won't put a certified librarian in a head position.

Or, I'm a working class guy and it's Sunday, my traditional off from work, can I go to the library? No, it is closed because there needs to be Master Librarian on duty and they've negotiated a contract to never have to work Sunday. Now the facility sits there unused 14% of the time, during the most likely time it would be used.

[Blackthorn]

> Who runs libraries? People with Masters in Library Science. I expect severe budget and certification crises would come to any library that won't put a certified librarian in a head position.

And you would be wrong. My local library is considered one of the best small-town libraries in the nation (I believe at one point it literally won an award for being the best) -- and does not have a certified librarian in a head position.

Also, to compare MLS librarians with MBAs in regards to the workings of what's under them is exceptionally unfair. Most librarians I know (a set which includes my father in law, who is a county library director, and two close friends, who hold MLS degrees) are extremely academically curious about new things they can do to make their libraries more accessible and attractive.

[MR4D]

No, he would be right.

Source: https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2014/07/do-librarians-need-a...

[Blackthorn]

Libraries do not all follow those rules. The existence of my local library, as I discussed, shows that.

[MR4D]

My point is that by and large, the parent poster was correct.

A lack of complete uniformity across the industry does not mean he's wrong.

[JoshCole]

But the person claimed that all libraries would be uniform when he said his expectation was that it would happen to any library. Therefore, he was wrong. The person you were correcting was right and you provided additional useful context.

[stillsut]

There are MBA's who are also curious and interested in "going digital", "leveraging big data", etc. Left to initiate programs under these banners, and evaluate themselves I expect the MBA to perform sub-optimally.

My point is not to disrespect MLS, in fact as even as a programmer, I'd probably be terrible as a head sys-admin/tech-support for a library too.

I'm wondering why we've never heard of anyone making a good career move by setting up tech at a library (other than as a fat and easy contract)? If we can all relate to these deficient computer networks being run in public libraries, why has nobody succeeded in this space? I'm suggesting perverse incentives in management structure is why this much needed service isn't being filled by our extremely talented tech workforce.

> it literally won an award for being the best and does not have a certified librarian in a head position.

kind of my point, no?

[johnjhayes]

>>I'm wondering why we've never heard of anyone making a good career move by setting up tech at a library

Because they are underfunded, Bezos seems to be addressing that.

>>kind of my point, no?

No, the provided example seems to be counter to your point.

[stretchwithme]

When you make something free for everybody, instead of just those with a financial need, it's going to be chronically underfunded. We're the richest country in the world, paying trillions in taxes, borrowing trillions more and advocates for every expenditure tell us more funds are needed.

If those with the means paid a fair price for the library resources they are sharing, a library could be open for many more, have better resources AND cost the taxpayer less.

Libraries weren't always free. Like the one Ben Franklin helped establish. These didn't cost the taxpayer anything. And if you wanted to help someone without the means, you would just pay for their membership.

http://www.benjamin-franklin-history.org/lending-library/

[mattkrause]

I'm not convinced it's that obvious.

Making something free for some, but not others could stir up resentment ("why should I pay for your use of the library?"), which would make it easier to cut funding in the future. This could lead to a spiral of increasing fees (or decreased service) -> smaller constituency -> less funding.

I'm also not sure that the marginal user costs a library very much. I doubt that a library with twice as many potential patrons needs twice as many books or two times the staff, for example.

[notfromhere]

Because libraries are underfunded, as is most public infrastructure. Libraries bring a lot of beneficial resources to a community, but they're the first things to be cut

[SolaceQuantum]

Every library I've been to in every town I've been to had Sunday hours. This includes New York City and its surrounding suburbs, Buffalo and its surrounding suburbs, several towns in Conneticut and several more in Toronto Canada and its surrounding suburbs.

Even my university library has sunday hours.

[jnordwick]

Definitely not NY. The NYPL only has a few of locations open on Sunday. The vast majority are not open.

[malynda]

Multiple libraries in small town Iowa do not have Sunday hours. Just to hazard a guess at the nearest place to have a library with Sunday hours probably requires a minimum 60 mile drive.

[mixmastamyk]

In LA only the central library is open Sunday, for 4 or 5 hours.

[qohen]

While most of the 70+ branches are closed Sundays, there are some 8 or 9 that are open from 1-5 on Sundays. E.g. the branch on Robertson, a few blocks south of Pico.

The hours for all branches are on the following page; to find the ones open on Sunday, just search on the page for:

Sun: 1-5

https://www.lapl.org/branches

Also, the Beverly Hills Public Library -- which is, of course, not part of the LA library system -- is open 12 - 6 on the weekends:

https://roxbury.beverlyhills.org/

[alphonsegaston]

Yeah but that's an LA thing, not specific to libraries. Lots of stuff closes way early or has weird hours

Also, the main branches of suburban libraries in places like Glendale and Pasadena are open all weekend too.

[soperj]

Libraries in Canada have the same stipulations, but are actually funded and are open all the time. Our downtown library is open 9am-9pm every day of the year.

[the_unknown]

Hm, I'm East of Toronto and thought my small town library was closed Sunday and Monday... just checked - no, open 7 days a week. Pleasantly surprised.

The small, small, small town north of here though is closed on Sunday.

[jgmjgm]

I live in Canada in a mid-sized city and my library is closed on Sundays. Just as a poster above, it appears to be the case that the librarians negotiated a great deal for themselves. (Closed on Sundays during the summer, open on Sundays during the winter.)

However, it is a great library. No arguments there. It's a pain that its closed on Sundays just when kids want to use it most.

[soperj]

Which city? I'm in a mid-sized city as well. I find it quite surprising since I've lived in many places around Canada from small towns to big cities from Toronto all the way out to the West Coast, and have never had access to at least one library that was open all the time.

[surement]

https://www.vpl.ca/hours-locations

[rubatuga]

That's a severe overgeneralization and I can tell you that is not the case.

[Sumaso]

Please do. Where is that not the case.

[enraged_camel]

Why does here have to be a master librarian on duty? Do you mean it's in the negotiated contract, or are there legitimate reasons?

[throwaway7645]

Being closed on Sunday is a bummer.

[Chardok]

I completely agree. Where I lived at in Houston, trying to find a place to sit and study quietly was near impossible, which is something I certainly took for granted.

Libraries provide so much public good: giving the public internet access, allowing people to read classics and better themselves for free, and giving some quiet space for those wanting to study (and not have to pay for a $5 coffee).

[goialoq]

not paying for a $5 coffee hurts the official GDP metrics. Reading a book in a library contributes $0 to official GDP.

[peatmoss]

Directly speaking, that's right. Indirectly, the latter statement is, of course, false in that libraries provide the means for anyone in society to raise their station and thus contribute more to GDP.

But I think you're making a good point that others are missing: The most valuable things in society are often things that aren't easily measured by straightforward means.

[arkitaip]

The libraries in my city offer legal advice, business advice and much more beyond storing books. Heck, the majority of books are put in storage in order to free up physical space for doing homework, computers, study rooms, etc.

[conductr]

This makes me think a recycle/reuse program should exist. "Our" old hardware is newer/better than what they have. I know this program probably does exists but I usually assume they are just breaking my device apart and pulling out gold/metals. If I knew the library needed a gently used device, I'd have no problem giving them my old stuff.

[KGIII]

The best thing you can do is ask your librarian. Libraries are often poorly funded, very much so in rural areas. They are often partially funded with donations.

Somebody was willing to step up and rehab a local library. Had they not done so, it would have been forced to close. It is staffed entirely by volunteers. The town can barely afford to budget the heat.

Fortunately, the same person now donates regularly and there's no risk of immediate closure. They will have also left a small trust for the library when they pass away.

[WalterBright]

Around here, the library buildings are new, large, modern, and spacious. Those buildings were expensive to construct.

They lack books, though. The shelves are low, widely spaced, and don't occupy much of the floor space.

http://www.buildingwork.design/projects/kenmore-library/

I've long since given up even looking for books there. I just go buy them.

Contrast this with Half Price Books:

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=ae61a8...

It's crammed with books. (The picture barely does that justice.)

[chupapuma]

The KCLS has a lot of books though and it is super easy to get them transported to the library for pickup. Also the eBook selection is immense.

[KGIII]

I still have a lovely, fairly local, shop. It is called Twice Sold Tales. It's a lovely place. I miss bookstores.

[goialoq]

Thanks to the march of progress, it's cheaper to deliver new tablets and keyboards than to wrangle ad-hoc used hardware.

[chickenfries]

Yeah, I have about 75% of a computer from upgrading mine overtime. Waiting until I have more parts to buy a case to put it in and then donate it to a library or school or something. All of my parts are in good condition and from the last 10 years, I would hate to see them stripped for metals.

[randyrand]

> where people need them the most

On the contrary, even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days and these libraries don't see much sense in upgrading their rarely used computers.

[chickenfries]

If you're poor, you might have a limited data plan. In which case, you probably make use of public WiFi all the time to reduce your usage of your limited data plan, which should be reserved for when you need it on the side of the road or when you're running late to a job interview.

Using an old android device to browse the internet is browsing as a second-class citizen. When I job hunt, I open many documents, hundreds of tabs, visit hundreds of websites... all of this would be greatly hindered by a mobile device.

Have you been to a low income library where people are not using the computers? My previous neighborhood's library computers were being used almost all the time when I went there.

> even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days

I'm curious what you've read that informs this opinion. The digital divide still exists, especially in rural areas but in general across socioeconomic class.

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/state-urbanrural-digital-...

[lnreddy]

Physical libraries seem so inefficient. Can't the same thing be accomplished at a fraction of the cost by distributing laptops with subscriptions to KhanAcademy etc ?

[johnjhayes]

Consider extreme rural areas. I've lived most of my life in rural Alabama and libraries provide an essential resource for many. Giving these people a laptop and a subscription doesn't help much if they don't have a decent internet connection (or one at all).

[ue_]

Perhaps the internet connection could be funded in a similar way to libraries, then.

[chickenfries]

There is still value in WiFi and a quiet place to work, especially if you're not wealthy and you don't have an office set up in your home, or don't have good quality internet, or home internet at all.