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by wegi 3238 days ago
Following the Protocoll does not mean you act democratic necessarily. The NSDAP was following the protocoll as well in the beginning. Every protocol and law can be abused. Especially when you control the judiciary.

The problem with Polands move is that the legislative tries to control the judiciary, a thing that goes against the very definition of a free democracy.

Similar in Turkey. The AKP controls not only the legislative without any real opposition, they also inoficially control the judiciary and the executive. Since all critical journalists get put in prison, the Press is also opressed.
1 comments
mc32 3238 days ago
Right, it's complicated and it's not clear cut. Amassing power is always a cautious endeavor that should be viewed with suspicion --but that's not always "undemocratic" people may want and vote for that --that all may lead to an eventual undemocratic regime which intimidates, fires rivals, jails and extorts its population ala Chavez. Poland and Germany are far from that.
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markvdb 3238 days ago
"Democratic" has been overloaded with meanings and has become very ambiguous in that respect. That is the real problem.

My guess is that many here say "democratic" and mean "a system that will guarantee one respect as per John Rawls' veil of ignorance [0]". A parliamentary democracy with clear separation between legislative, executive and judiciary seems to be the lease bad solution humanity has been able to come up with for now.

Venezuela, Turkey and Poland are just recent highlights of how vulnerable parliamentary democracy is...

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

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alkonaut 3238 days ago
It's a slippery slope. In the beginning it looks like innocent little constitutional changes etc. Usually under the pretense of some external enemy (Terrorists, whatever). some private media losing their broadcast rights (Poland). Journalists arrested on terror charges under very strange circumstances (Turkey) and so on.

Once these changes are in place, and the division of power and free press is gone - the goal is open to move much faster. That's why it's so alarming in Poland/Turkey even though Venezuela is much worse already. Liberal democracy is brittle, and it can still be saved in Poland/Turkey. In Venezuela it has to be built.

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