[JumpCrisscross]

> i really disagree that marketing creates value

Have you never found a product you wouldn't have heard about had it not been for an ad or something like it?

[BoiledCabbage]

If marketing were really about "product discovery" there would just be a yellow pages for all products and we'd call it a day.

It is a zero sum game of trying to get a manipulate a consumer to like your product over another.

[quadrangle]

spot on. Do people need McDonald's ads to inform them about McDonald's products? Maybe in a few rare cases. It's not about information, it's about manipulation.

[the_cat_kittles]

i dont dispute that theres value in clearly identifying what your selling. im saying that we are past that point and into lying and manipulative advertising in lots of cases. to put it another way, im fairly sure that "marketing" is making it harder for me to find the things i want rather than easier.