[s0rce]

Yes, they are rich people lanes, although cars like the leaf and the bolt make them more accessible to "middle" class people compared to a tesla for most people an electric car isn't practical and would have to be a secondary vehicle for only commuting which again makes it for rich people. Although, like many laws in California, it seems like a good idea to promote electric cars, allowing them to use the carpool infrastructure just doesn't seem like a good plan.

[gonehome]

The Fiat 500e is extremely cheap to lease ($87/month). Last year there was even a point where it was $1500 down, since you get a $2500 incentive check from California if you got that deal you were basically being paid to take it.

Most people would be fine with an EV given how much they actually drive, it's not just for rich people.

[Pica_soO]

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

[Cookingboy]

I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids.

Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die.

Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.

[secabeen]

Actually, the wear on the brakes is significantly less because most braking is done by regeneration from the motor(s). There's no transmission fluid, no belts, no fuel air, or oil filters to replace. It is a significantly less complicated system.

[prostoalex]

> Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die.

You need to know the context and back story of this before claiming that it's something Tesla "recommends". Tesla did not offer maintenance initially, and it was not in the books until it became a top-requested and top-discussed subject on owner message boards. The company then reluctantly admitted that fear of not finding a suitable repair shop drove buyers' decisions towards not buying and started offering the plan.

The year 1 service, for example, includes such onerous tasks as "Key fob battery replacement" and "Wiper blade set replacement". If you want to save money or for whatever reason refuse to set a foot inside a Tesla Service Center, you don't really need to. Until year 4, looks like.

https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans?redirect=no

[matthewowen]

The link you posted directly contradicts your post.

The year 2 service is almost identical to year 4, and year 1 includes a fluid service that isn't covered in later years.

[davexunit]

Here is the Chevy Bolt maintenance schedule from GM: https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dyna...

Tire rotations, cabin air filter replacement every so often, and a coolant fluid replacement at 150k miles.

Nearly all braking is done via regenerative braking and not friction brakes so brake maintenance won't be needed for a very long time.

[seanmcdirmid]

Electric cars leverage heavily regenerative braking, which substantially reduces wear and tear on the friction brake system. So the brake pads and fluid will require a lot less maintenance.

You are still right about the tires though.

[wyager]

Steering system, suspension, tires, wiring, brakes, boots, joints, etc...

There's more to a car than the engine. Electric vehicles shave off engine, transmission(?), and fuel system, but add batteries, high-power electronics, and electric motors (presumably with either a transmission or some way to adjust back-EMF).

The majority of the time inspecting a car is spent elsewhere than the engine. Most shops just plug into the OBD and give a visual inspection of timing belt, fan belt, etc. and look at maintenance stickers.

[DrScump]

For whatever reason, those extreme subsidy deals don't reach Northern California.

[gcb0]

and then you ignore that a cheap ev can't be the only car for a person, specially out of san fran.

so now you have two insurances. two garages or live well enough to have two street parking. two maintenance bills. etc. etc.

[AshleyGrant]

Why can't a cheap EV be the only car for a person? Most people drive <100 miles each day. When/if you need to drive further than that, there's plenty of companies very willing to rent you an ICE vehicle.

I drive a four door sedan currently. It doesn't handle 100% of my motoring needs, that doesn't mean I need to own a moving van for that 0.1% of the time I need it. I just go rent it. It also isn't able to be checked as luggage when I travel, and so I rent a car when I arrive at my destination (if needed). I don't pay someone to transport the car to wherever I'm going.

This argument that EVs need to support 100% of all driving needs before they are acceptable is ridiculous. No vehicle handles 100% of driving needs.

My current car is a BMW M3, but I'm replacing it with a 530e (plugin hybrid). The 530e can't do everything the M3 could do from a performance standpoint, but it will be able to handle 80-90% of my driving needs in 100% electric mode. I'm 100% confident that my fiance's next car will be a pure electric vehicle (likely a next-gen Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt) that will handle 100% of her average daily driving needs. The only time we'll need to rent a car for her is when she needs to go on drives longer than 200 miles or so. That only happens 3 or 4 times a year, so we're not too worried about it as Enterprise will "pick us up."

[gcb0]

we both know you never used any of the m3 performance features. ever. even that one time when you think you did when you stepped on the gas after the red light.

m3 has such tight bearings that all it does outside of a track is break internal engine parts 80% earlier than any other consumer car.

now, even if you think renting a car that one time a month you need more than 100 miles, for most people it's a hassle they want to avoid more than you want to spend money.

and lastly, buying a new 530e will keep you carbon negative for two decades at least. not buying a new car is infinitely better than even buying electric.

[AshleyGrant]

Well, first off, you're wrong regarding my use of the M3's performance features. I did European delivery, and did 900+ miles of Autobahn driving in the car, most of which was spent cruising at 140 mph+, including three or four runs up to 165 mph+. Also, when I had the chance, I would take it to the mountains of North Georgia/Western North Carolina to push the car to my limits. Having both done multi-day performance driving schools with BMW's own driving instructors up in Spartanburg, SC, as well as having done hot laps with those same instructors on the Daytona road course, I know the car is capable of performing beyond my own limits, but I am capable of pushing it to about 9/10ths on a track and 8/10ths on a suitable mountain road.

So yeah, I used the performance features of the M3 on many occasions.

That being said, I live in Florida, and the car was, frankly, boring to drive on Florida roads. Driving fast in a straight line at speeds that won't result in my arrest aren't a stretch for the car, and driving the car at my limits makes me a threat to the safety of other people sharing the road with me when I find corners. There is a sweeping right hander on the Interstate off ramp near my house that I could take at 110 mph without the car, or me, breaking a sweat.

Moving on...

You might be right that renting a car once a month is a hassle for people. But I don't think most people go on 100+ mile drives every month (or at least average one trip like that each month).

And I always love how people talk about how much better it is for the environment it is to buy a used car rather than a new car, as if used cars just appear out of the ether. The people who buy my off-lease cars share in the carbon footprint of producing the car.

And even ignoring that, the lifetime carbon footprint of an EV, PHEV, or even just a non-plugin HEV is going to be lower than that of a ICE-only equivalent vehicle.

[gcb0]

never suggested a used car. but instead just maintaining one for much, much longer than the average American does.

replacing a good that lasts 100yrs if well cared for every two years is the best example of the disposable society insanity.

[concede_pluto]

You can't street park an EV, you have to run a 220V outlet to your garage if you plan to drive it two days in a row. Which means nobody in an apartment can use one.

[ido]

Why can't a cheap ev be a person's only car in SF?

[taneq]

But what about the one time per decade that they decide to make a road trip to Miami?

[ido]

rent a car?