[greenyoda]

"The same is even more true of the US, I did the math out in an earlier HN post, IIRC it comes out to something ridiculous like double or triple all current residential electric usage on a yearly basis."

In NYC, we get uncomfortably close to peak electrical capacity on hot summer days, to the point where the utilities beg us to reduce consumption (e.g., e-mails at work saying the power company is asking us to turn off computers and lights that we aren't using). Even at night, people are running their air conditioners full blast. When we've maxed out the nuclear and gas power plants, we fire up the dirty, old oil-fired power plants as the generators of last resort.

I can't imagine NYC being able to convert a significant number of cars to electric with the existing power infrastructure.

[imron]

> we fire up the dirty, old oil-fired power plants as the generators of last resort.

But it's probably still a net win if that extra electricity is going to power electric cars, because a power plant is more efficient than thousands of internal combustion engines.

See: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-li...

[greenyoda]

It's not just a question of thermodynamic efficiency. Cars have emission control systems (catalytic converters, etc.) that mitigate some of the pollutants, and perhaps most importantly, use a much cleaner fuel (the heavy fuel oil burned in power plants produces soot, sulfur compounds, etc. which the more highly refined hydrocarbons in gasoline do not).

[sqeaky]

I don't think he was talking about thermodynamic efficiency. But filtering efficiency. Filtering one big power plant is easier than filtering many independently owned cars. Also the power plants filter is stationary and the cars filters must move.

[mcv]

Cars are not as dirty as they used to be, but the internal combustion engine is still incredibly inefficient, and has only a narrow band where it runs at optimal efficiency.

It is of course possible to make power plants even dirtier and less efficient, but it's also possible to make them cleaner and more efficient, which is of course what we should be doing.

[mowenz]

Good lord that is a long-winded post. Not just in scope, but the writing style rambles and opines endlessly.

For the record, I'm excited for the Model 3, and would buy a Model S if I could afford it.

That said, the claim in that reference is problematic for many reasons, which I didn't notice were addressed: 1) Thermal efficiency in a vehicle is converted directly to mechanical energy. A power plant must convert thermal energy into electrical energy (losses involved), transmit it long distances across an energy grid (more losses involved), store it in a battery (more losses), and convert it back to mechanical energy (even more losses). 2) EVs like the Model S lug around as much as >1,000s of lbs of batteries. That's monstrously inefficient when specifically compared to the energy density of gasoline. 3) Some power generators may emit more pollution than modern cars-1

From a public policy perspective, the low-hanging fruits in the fight for cleaner emissions are to get people in gas guzzlers into Civics and Accords, not to get people in Civics and Accords in to EVs. That, and public transportation, bicycling infrastructure, and raising the price of carbon to align with the public cost of it.

1-https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are...

[mowenz]

If someone downvote, can you point out what is incorrect? It feels like saying anything negative about Tesla/EVs on HN is just downvoted without regard for merit.

[foota]

If demand substantially increases then more baseload capacity will likely be built.

And it looks like New York peaks at around 4-5pm, with a drop off around 8-10pm. EVs will likely charge at night, meaning they won't have as much impact on the peak.

Edit: source for load http://mis.nyiso.com/public/htm/isolf/20170705isolf.htm

[jjeaff]

They will have to setup some kind of timer or incentive to charge off peak, because otherwise, most cars are going to be plugged in around 5 to 6 right when people pull into their garage.

[maxsilver]

Most cars already do this. In a Chevy Volt and Ford C-MAX Energi, for instance, you tell it what time you leave for work in the morning (say 7:00am), and then it automatically waits to charge until the middle of the night to ensure the battery is full when you leave the next morning.

Even if you plug it in right at 5pm, it doesn't actually start drawing electricity until later at night.

This feature it set just one time only, and works automatically forever afterwards. It's been common on most electric cars since 2013.

[jjeaff]

Yes, I assumed that the option existed, but I think you are going to see a lot of people who want their car to start charging right when they get home in case they plan to take the car out again that evening or even for emergency issues like what if a child gets sick in the night and the car hasn't started charging yet. Obviously won't be the case for everyone but I can see it being a reason to charge immediately.

[foota]

That's true. If they wanted, Tesla could easily add this functionality.

I'm not too familiar with ny in particular, but there are systems that allow for metering based on peak/off peak usage. Looks like coned allows this.

[nicoburns]

Seems like a perfect situation for Photo Voltaics...