[imron]

> we fire up the dirty, old oil-fired power plants as the generators of last resort.

But it's probably still a net win if that extra electricity is going to power electric cars, because a power plant is more efficient than thousands of internal combustion engines.

See: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-li...

[greenyoda]

It's not just a question of thermodynamic efficiency. Cars have emission control systems (catalytic converters, etc.) that mitigate some of the pollutants, and perhaps most importantly, use a much cleaner fuel (the heavy fuel oil burned in power plants produces soot, sulfur compounds, etc. which the more highly refined hydrocarbons in gasoline do not).

[sqeaky]

I don't think he was talking about thermodynamic efficiency. But filtering efficiency. Filtering one big power plant is easier than filtering many independently owned cars. Also the power plants filter is stationary and the cars filters must move.

[mcv]

Cars are not as dirty as they used to be, but the internal combustion engine is still incredibly inefficient, and has only a narrow band where it runs at optimal efficiency.

It is of course possible to make power plants even dirtier and less efficient, but it's also possible to make them cleaner and more efficient, which is of course what we should be doing.

[mowenz]

Good lord that is a long-winded post. Not just in scope, but the writing style rambles and opines endlessly.

For the record, I'm excited for the Model 3, and would buy a Model S if I could afford it.

That said, the claim in that reference is problematic for many reasons, which I didn't notice were addressed: 1) Thermal efficiency in a vehicle is converted directly to mechanical energy. A power plant must convert thermal energy into electrical energy (losses involved), transmit it long distances across an energy grid (more losses involved), store it in a battery (more losses), and convert it back to mechanical energy (even more losses). 2) EVs like the Model S lug around as much as >1,000s of lbs of batteries. That's monstrously inefficient when specifically compared to the energy density of gasoline. 3) Some power generators may emit more pollution than modern cars-1

From a public policy perspective, the low-hanging fruits in the fight for cleaner emissions are to get people in gas guzzlers into Civics and Accords, not to get people in Civics and Accords in to EVs. That, and public transportation, bicycling infrastructure, and raising the price of carbon to align with the public cost of it.

1-https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electric-cars-are...

[mowenz]

If someone downvote, can you point out what is incorrect? It feels like saying anything negative about Tesla/EVs on HN is just downvoted without regard for merit.