[zabana]

Not judging you but it could just be that you might come across as """creepy""" (notice the three pairs of quotes here). The issue is that you're in a hyper sensitive environment with hyper sensitive people. If you try and initiate a conversation with certain women (even to be polite because you dgaf about them) that dislike you, it can be considered """pushy""" and/or """creepy""" (even though there's no objective proof that you were trying to force their hand) but if you're the tall, confident, handsome guy from marketing then you're "such a player". So yeah, my advice to you is stay extremely professional for the remainder of your time there, try not to burn bridges with the company, stay courteous, work hard and most importantly find a job somewhere else. Also, learn about social dynamics. If you're socially awkward you'll be more at risk of being accused of rape (whatever its definition of the day is). Not to mention the increasing pressure that lies on HR and management as a result of the fear of being labeled the next Uber.

[le-mark]

I've concluded over the years that I must give off some sort of creepy vibe at tmes. It's wierd, it seems to be situational or based on the other party, because it's only happens about 95% of the time. I've found that I just seem to make some women uncomfortable.

Sometimes it's been justified, and I've learned what not to do, like sitting to close to a lab partner in college. But then other times, I'm still mystified to this day; like why was asking a co-worker if she was still running half marathons a reason for her to respond "how do you know that? why do you care?" in an an accusatory manner. I concluded, maybe I'm not the only wierd one, in that case.

At the end of the day, you only control yourself. I figured out early on to concentrate on conducting myself in a professional manner, and keep small talk to a minimum. Work isn't for making friends. Friendships will arise, but I'm always very cautious at work.

[Inconel]

I'm going to expand on your comment a bit with regards to the whole "creepiness" thing. I think it's very important to realize just how difficult it can sometimes be to manage professional and personal relationships. I think one of the ways we tend to learn social interaction is by observing others and emulating what we see. This doesn't always lead to good outcomes. I think most people like to imagine that rules, and I don't necessarily mean rules laid out by corporate HR, but social rules, are applied equally to everyone. I don't believe this to be the case at all. Social norms can be very subjectively applied based on the people interacting.

I'll be perfectly blunt, there are a number of things about me(I'm short, skinny, not particularly attractive, definitely not smart, not exactly charismatic, a long list of other things I'm sure) that make me a rather low status person, at least if we are basing it on somewhat superficial standards. I've worked with people before who were all the things that I'm not, and had I emulated their behavior, I'm quite certain it would have come across as creepy or harassing rather fun-loving or joking. This doesn't mean that you should try to get away with as much as you can based on your perceived status, but instead that you should always be aware that very different rules may apply to you based on how others view you. It's not exactly fair, but there isn't really much that can be done aside from trying your best to be a good person.

Also, for clarity that "you" wasn't you specifically, just a general "you".

[imron]

> like why was asking a co-worker if she was still running half marathons a reason for her to respond "how do you know that? why do you care?" in an an accusatory manner

Well, the devil is in the details. How do you know that she runs half marathons?

Do you know it because 2 years ago she posted it to Facebook and you've gone through all her old Facebook posts and know that she once ran half-marathons? Creepy.

Or, do you know it because 6 months ago you were having a conversation with her and she brought up that she runs half-marathons, but she's now forgotten that conversation. Not creepy, she just has a bad memory.

[matheist]

And there's quite a wide range of alternatives in here, ranging from "not creepy at all" to "extrememly creepy".

you have established a rapport where you talk about weekend activities, and she has mentioned half marathons to you in particular

"Are you still running half marathons?"

Not problematic at all; by standard social conventions you have implicit permission to ask about a topic that was previously deemed acceptable. Everyone knows how you know about marathons.

---

you have established a rapport where you talk about weekend activities, and she has NOT mentioned half marathons to you

"Are you still running half marathons?"

Might cause a moment's confusion but is probably fine — she might think you heard it from a mutual acquaintance, and marathons are not so intimate that they'd be off limits if you have previously discussed equally intimate subjects.

---

you are only casually acquainted, have had maybe one or two conversations in group settings and the two of you did not directly interact in this group

"Are you still running half marathons?"

Too forward — you probably don't have implicit permission to bring up personal subjects that she did not explicitly bring up to you first. The social standard here in this situation would probably be to determine her attitude towards you by asking less intimate questions (e.g. "Did you have a good weekend?") that give her the option to signal whether she's interested in more interaction. ("Yup." -> not interested. don't ask about marathons. "Yes, I went running, how about you?" -> potentially interested.)

---

you are not acquainted, or have met once or twice but have not spoken to each other outside of when it's required for work

"Are you still running half marathons?"

Nope, way too forward. Most people take a gradual approach ("Did you have a good weekend?"), and the fact that you're not doing that is a signal that you don't understand social nuances and are potentially dangerous. Best case scenario, she makes a polite excuse and leaves.

---

you are not acquainted, and also have a reputation for not understanding social norms

"Are you still running half marathons?"

She's thinking of the best way to make unambiguously sure that you don't talk to her again.

[le-mark]

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense; the scenario was: more than acquaintances, worked together for over a year, she was QA on a project I was on, we talked everyday. She was very open about her life, and talked openly about the half marathons. Then I ran into her at a beer meetup with alumni from the same company, I hadn't talked to her in over a year. I was trying to make conversation, so I asked about the half marathons. That was the context, very not creepy imo. But I welcome feedback on that :)

[hluska]

You know, I'm not trying to make you feel bad here, but I wonder if that's the kind of question that needed some lead in? Usually when I meet a co-worker or acquaintance who I haven't spoken to in over a year (particularly if there is alcohol involved), I tend to be a little more conservative about how I bring up topics.

For example, in that situation, I might have said something like:

Hey, remember how you used to tell me all about your half marathon training? I just ran my first 5k...are you still training?

With those sentences you have:

1. Queued her memory. 2. Showed how that particular topic is relevant to you. 3. Asked your question.

That kind of approach also tends to be a more fertile conversation starter with people who I haven't spoken to in a long time.

Finally, this is harsh advice, but necessary to hear. One of the keys to people is understanding that some people are significantly more important to you than you are to them. You may use the phrase 'more than acquaintances' to describe your relationship to her. She may refer to you as 'some guy in IT'. Or, maybe she has never referred to you because you just aren't that important to her.

That isn't bad though, because it is just as inevitable that you are significantly more important to someone else than he/she is to you. Heck, 'that person who serves you coffee' may refer to you as 'le-mark le drool'. :)

Point being, our operating systems aren't all compatible.

[mercer]

It shouldn't be creepy, I think, but I can see that it is interpreted that way.

I've had a few experiences similar to yours. I'd ask about something I remembered from earlier, and people acted surprised that I remembered. Sometimes the response was negative, and I got the impression that they themselves had forgotten that they told me about this. But other times, especially in a dating context, the response was very positive ('I can't believe you remember!').

As a result of all this, I've made it a personal policy to be very careful about sharing what I remember. When I feel confident that it'll be considered positively, I mention it. When I'm not sure, I act like I don't have the memories that I do.

As an aside, there's some evidence that strong memory in this regard correlates with depression. For me that strikes me as very true: I vividly remember and feel guilt over things only to find out that the other party has entirely forgotten about it.

[matheist]

yeah, that definitely sounds like an appropriate question in that context, then. sounds like the problem isn't with you there :/

[sheepmullet]

> Too forward — you probably don't have implicit permission to bring up personal subjects that she did not explicitly bring up to you first.

Maybe if you have low social status....

For normal people it is absolutely ok.

You aren't asking about her sex life.

[fjfkdjfjfjd]

Well said! I will definitely keep the workplace for working especially during the rest of this internship.

[fjfkdjfjfjd]

Thanks for your commend and advice! Definitely looking forward to keeping my head low and seeing how much more I can accomplish in these next few months I have left. I believe I fall into the socially-awkward/inexperienced category. Are there any resources you could suggest to learn more about social dynamics?

[peoplewindow]

Observe, watch. And be aware that these things aren't really fair or systematic. Like the guy says, exactly the same behaviour can be interpreted as creepy or giggle-inducing depending on whether the guy doing it is attractive, confident, successful etc.

You sound like you're not confident and as you're an intern, you're not financially successful either. So the bar for you to be not """creepy""" to use ops phrasing is a sadly a lot higher.

Frankly I'd suggest watching a lot of comedy shows and soaps. Your issue probably isn't anything you specifically did, it sounds like you just need to get better at small talk so attempts to be sociable come off as suitably casual. Women like guys who are relaxed, confident, funny and whose conversations are a little bit surprising (but in a good way). Nobody can teach you that with conventional methods but watching how well scripted characters do it on TV can help you get into the groove.

[tom_mellior]

> I'd suggest watching a lot of comedy shows and soaps

Those (at least the ones I watch) are full of sexual innuendo. Not exactly the kind of humor you would want to "learn" if you come off as a creepy sexual predator.

[dajohnson89]

Practice, practice, practice. But not on the female co-workers that you like.

[zabana]

yeah that. Also try and engage in social activites outside of work (could be charity or whatever you're into). The goal is that you get used to human interactions with low stakes and that you get out of your own head. For example, go to a gym and be a regular member there, you'll eventually get to know the staff and be more optimistic about speaking to others (not to mention the immense benefits on health / body image and the effects it has on your level of confidence). Talk to the ugly barista at starbucks (joke about how she's spelt your name wrong, after a while ask her how she's doing, then ask her name), smile more if you don't already. And just work your way up from there. Being a software engineer is actually a massive advantage in the social field because you have an analytical mind so you can develop the best judgement on what to do and calibrate your behaviour to others. If you share offices with other companies, talk to them during their break if they're having a quick smoke outside (that's what I used to do) eventually they'll start to invite you to bars and coffee shops and other events. You'll then expand your social circles, you'll go out more, speak to more women (attractive or not) and you'll soon realise that the sad person who accused you is actually not worth speaking to. (I was going to say something else, but I wanna keep my karma init </south london accent>)

[fjfkdjfjfjd]

I'm bookmarking your comment! Thanks for your advice! I definitely could use a gym membership. And when I meet such new people, I'll try to find conversation topics that would be very unlikely to be taken the wrong way (as I have now learned, It's better not to ask people about their weekend plans as this could be viewed as hitting on them).

[ilikeeverything]

Asking about weekend plans (or about the previous weekend) is a pretty standard office smalltalk in the UK, but I think it's considered quite intrusive in the US.. so also depends on where you are

[hal9000xp]

You have described exact reason why I completely disrespect third-wave feminism, political correctness culture and other derivatives of left-wing politics.

[zabana]

I hear that. I've had to deal with self centered / entitled people on numerous occasions and if I wasn't socially equipped to deal with that kind of BS, I honestly don't know where I'd be right now.