[vog]

Nice idea! Maybe this issue is similar to that of command completion, but could also result in a similar mess. Every command has its "-h" or "--help", showing the syntax, available options and so on. But since even that is not really standardized, separate command-line completion rules are written for every command. And for every shell.

[skissane]

Define a standard format for describing command syntax. I'd suggest basing it on JSON, but you could use XML or Protobuf or Thrift or ASN.1 or Sexprs or whatever. Embed in executables a section containing the command syntax description object. Now when I type in a command, the shell finds the executable on the path, opens it, locates the command description syntax section (if present), and if found uses that to provide tab completion, online help, smarter syntax checking, whatever–if you've ever used OS/400, it has a feature where it constructs a fill-in-form dialog based on the command syntax descriptions, which you can call up at the press of a function key. (Obviously the shell should cache this data, it shouldn't reread /bin/ls every time I type "ls".)

[jstimpfle]

There isn't a 1:1 mapping of binaries to documentation or completion scripts. That idea won't work out.

"Defining a standard format" hasn't been a successful practice in the Unix world. Many standards consist essentially of the bare minimum that everybody can agree with.

Unix command-line interfaces are already structured (as a list of strings), and more structure would be hard to support at the binary level. There are too many possibilities of doing that, and most CLI programs wouldn't even need that.

[yorwba]

If the binary is using one of a few common libraries, e.g. GNU getopt, to read its command-line parameters, it should be possible to extract somewhat useful completions automatically.

Then you are essentially relying on the de-facto standard of not rolling your own argument parsing, as opposed to some product of a standards committee.

[johnny22]

fish shell does it with manpages https://fishshell.com/docs/current/commands.html#fish_update...

[jstimpfle]

Getopt is just barely flexible enough to be applicable to many projects while still encoding some conventions (dash-prefixed options and optional arguments).

Still it's too opinionated to be applicable to all programs. And it's by far not structured enough to support automated completions.

Every programmer goes through this phase of trying to abstract what can't be abstracted. Essentially for non-trivial programs you need to encode what you want yourself. You can't write a library that is suitable for the infinitely many thinkable programs.

By the way, even handcoded completions are, often enough, more confusing than helpful to me (and not because they are handcoded). I've disabled them entirely.

[majewsky]

> By the way, even handcoded completions are, often enough, more confusing than helpful to me (and not because they are handcoded). I've disabled them entirely.

Huh? Can you give some examples? I'm on zsh, and except for broken auto-generated shell completions like that provided by ripgrep, I've found zsh completions to be incredibly competent. Much more competent than myself usually.

[jstimpfle]

I only know bash, but I doubt zsh can be so much better (yes, I know, they have colorful suggestions and better interactivity for selection).

The context sensitivity is just very confusing. Sometimes completion hangs, maybe because an SSH connection is made in the background, or the completion is just not very efficient.

Then sometimes I have a typo and get the weirdest suggestions and it's much harder to track down the error statically than just running the program and get a nice error message.

Then sometimes I am more intimate with the complexities of the command-line invocation than the completion script can appreciate, and get no completion, when all I need is just a stupid local file completion. This results in the (untrue) assumption a file wasn't there, which easily leads to further confusion.

No, thanks. I know how to use the tools that I use. Dear completion, just help me with the files on my disk (which is the fast-changing variable in the game) and let me type commands as I see fit.

[solidsnack9000]

This is actually a very interesting problem. The format would be an IDL, since you're describing a "struct" of options, array-valued fields, and "typed" fields that are constrained to certain grammars (numbers, &c.).

[ams6110]

This sort of exists. The command syntax format is the standard man page "Usage" and "Options" sections, and an implementation is docopt (http://docopt.org/)

[vidarh]

I still miss AmigaOS, where command options parsing was largely standardised ca. 1987 via ReadArgs() (barring the occasional poor/direct port from other OS's) [1]. It wasn't perfect (it only provided a very basic usage summary), but it was typed, and it was there.

[1] http://www.pjhutchison.org/tutorial/cmdline_arrgs.html

[pjmlp]

If it was only that, what about libraries for handling all kinds of file formats via the OS plugin system?

[vidarh]

There are lots of things I miss. Datatypes is definitively one of them. AREXX ports everywhere (I hate the language, but you don't need the language to make use of AREXX ports; Dbus is like what you get if you take AREXX and give it to a committee; the beauty of AREXX was the sheer simplicity that made it so trivial to add support for it to "everything" to the extent that many tools built their central message loop around checking for AREXX commands and built their application around dispatching AREXX like commands between different parts of the app).

Assigns is another one (for the non-Amiga aware that stumble on this, on the Amiga, I'd refer to my files with "Home:", but unlike on a Unix/Linux, Home: is not an environment variable that needs to be interpreted like $HOME or something that needs to be expanded like "~" - it is recognised by the OS as a valid filesystem path, assigned at runtime; similarly, instead of having a $PATH that needs to be interpreted, all my binaries would be accessible via "C:" for "command" - "C:" is an assign made up of multiple actual directories, one of which would typically be Sys:C, where Sys: is the System volume, and Sys: itself is an assign pointing to whatever drive you booted; Assigns are like dynamic symlinks with multiple targets, or like $PATH's interpreted by the OS)