[vertex-four]

Ehh... the issue is mostly that online dating doesn't go very well for the vast, vast majority of people. On the other hand, I know plenty of not-particularly-attractive people who've met partners through all sorts of weird and whacky situations.

Fact of the matter is that finding potential partners, like finding anyone, is about constantly growing the network of people you interact with. I meet new people nearly every week through various communities I'm part of and organise. Many of them stay that way, just "part of my community", some of them become great friends, and very few become partners. You're unlikely to manage that while working 80 hours a week, going to the bar once or twice a week, and otherwise not being involved in much.

Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.

[ice109]

>Also, speaking personally... the sort of person who thinks it's fun to spend their time automating personal interaction is not the sort of person I want to date.

forgive me for waxing poetical but i've thought about this a lot - since i have tinder and okcupid accounts - online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises to come out of the digital revolution. take one of the most personally rewarding and edifying experiences and completely formalize one of the most exciting parts of it (if not the most). what becomes the point of your life???

i read a stupid platitude somewhere that you should do something that scares you every day and approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity (i'm not sailing over the ocean blue, summiting mt everest, hunting moby dick, etc.). why would you want to sidestep that.

[gorkonsine]

>online dating is one of the most nihilistic enterprises

>approaching people you're attracted to (not on the street you pua twats) is one of the few "scary" things still available to us as denizens of modernity

Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet people. If you're not supposed to try to pick up people on the street, then where would you apply this advice? Work? I don't know about you, but I'm a software engineer, so there's no single women at my workplace. School? I graduated quite some time ago, and work now. Church? Like many technologists, I'm irreligious (and I wouldn't want to date a religious woman anyway; been there, done that). Extracurricular activities? Sure, but the number of single women at these things tends to be pretty small, so it's a LOT of effort for very low odds of success. Any many of my interests just don't have very many single women participating anyway.

The simple fact is, online dating offers a way for people to meet who otherwise simply wouldn't. This problem isn't new either; ever hear of "singles mixers"? Those were around long before the WWW came about. Online dating just moves that kind of thing online, and gives you a way of screening people before taking your time to meet them in person so you can make sure you're at least a little compatible. The main problem I personally see with online dating is that there aren't enough people using it (esp. female, they're far more reluctant to use it and see it as a point of shame), and there's too many different competing services. Oh yeah, and all the liars too. But that's nothing new, men picking up women in bars have been lying about themselves forever too.

[watwut]

"Extracurricular activities? Sure, but the number of single women at these things tends to be pretty small,"

Different extracurricular activities? Like dancing class or climbing - both being social and popular among women.

[bragh]

It's said that it's a very bad idea to do that. Women go to those activities to have fun, not for single guys to hit on them.

[watwut]

That is true. But I think that part of secret is to find activity you genuinely like on itself and then not hit every girl that talks to you. Instead, just socialise, do activity, observe people and ask a girl that looks like long term material based on previous non dating non hitting interactions.

Basically, do selection before you date them - that is what meeting girl "naturally" is. Most girls are not good long term match for most dudes - hitting at random is bound to fail many times (unless you are super accommodating type able to adjust to anybody).

[gorkonsine]

I'm going to echo what the other guy said: going into an activity like that just to pick up chicks is not both insulting to the women there (they didn't go there just to get hit on by single men), and not really that helpful for you: you're essentially lying, by claiming this is an activity you also enjoy, when you really don't and you're just there to meet women. (If you really did enjoy it, you'd already be doing it.)

[pm90]

> Online dating is good for people who simply have NO other avenue to meet people

Like everything, in moderation it works great. I'm a male software engineer and can relate to your feelings of not being able to meet single women naturally. But relying exclusively on online dating is kinda... uncreative. You mentioned bars. But also: coffee shops. Art shows. Music festivals. When used in conjunction, Online dating is great, because now you can invite the women you meet online to join you in the other fun activities going on in your life.

[NikolaeVarius]

I've never really understood the entire Art Shows/Music Festival angle. I've been to a few and never really been in a situation to actually talk to people.

[pm90]

Of course I can't speak to your individual experience. But these are events where a lot of people are in close proximity and hence the chances of meeting others increase.

In music festivals, the last few women that I met were: sitting next to me watching music, in a line to get beer, dancing to my favorite band etc. It seems to me the social norm in the US for the guy to first initiate contact, so you've gotta be able to do that. Women generally have never initiated conversation, except the most extroverted ones.

I like Art Shows/Museums better because they tend to attract a little more educated/sophisticated crowd. I mean, to be fair, I don't go to these places with the explicit intent of meeting women, but the last time I was in MOMA in Houston and there was a group of ladies talking about Napoleon and I couldn't resist asking questions... it was a great conversation and sharing of minds!

[logfromblammo]

I'd totally be down with a book club where the #1 rule was don't talk at book club. The club therefore consists of people willing to sit in the same place at the same time, and read their own books without ever ruining them by discussing them. Relationship interest would be telegraphed by slightly overlapping your cone of personal space onto someone else's, and hoping it doesn't make them panic and flee.

Nothing spoils a potential relationship quite like finding out the other person is a babbling idiot.

[gorkonsine]

>But also: coffee shops.

I've spent plenty of time in coffee shops. I've had a number of first dates there too. I have never seen anyone introduce themselves to someone in a coffee shop, unless it was obvious that they were planning to meet there. Instead, most people I see there are busy: they're either with a friend(s), or they're busy working on their computer. They're not there to get picked up. If I were a woman, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't go to a coffee shop and relax without a bunch of men hitting on me.

>Music festivals.

If you don't share the same taste in music, that's going to be a problem. The concerts I go to are filled with men. Besides, I've never been to a concert where people were walking around mingling and meeting each other; they were there to listen to the music, not socialize.

[pm90]

> If you don't share the same taste in music, that's going to be a problem. The concerts I go to are filled with men. Besides, I've never been to a concert where people were walking around mingling and meeting each other; they were there to listen to the music, not socialize.

I don't disagree. It can be hard to find activities which are popular with both sexes. I don't really know what to tell you, except that, I'm sorry you didn't luck out in being interested in any of those activities. I would suggest trying to develop a taste for other activities, but I don't think its in my place to ask you to do anything :). I am after all a stranger on the internet.

> I've spent plenty of time in coffee shops. I've had a number of first dates there too. I have never seen anyone introduce themselves to someone in a coffee shop, unless it was obvious that they were planning to meet there. Instead, most people I see there are busy: they're either with a friend(s), or they're busy working on their computer. They're not there to get picked up. If I were a woman, I'd be annoyed if I couldn't go to a coffee shop and relax without a bunch of men hitting on me.

I agree here as well. If you read my other comment, you will see that most of my interactions are incidental, not forced. Its hard to explain, but you have to develop a certain social awareness and curiosity.

[vertex-four]

Honestly, I've had people pick up conversation with me in a coffee shop on occasion - either they overhear me talking to whoever I'm there with about something they're super interested in, or they're honestly just bored and I happen to be nearby.

[morgtheborg]

> take one of the most personally rewarding and edifying experiences and completely formalize one of the most exciting parts of it (if not the most). what becomes the point of your life???

Yea, so the early part of dating may be the most "exciting", but that's not why I date. I find that love goggle time period to be a huge waste of time when 6 months to 1 year later you realize you're completely incompatible on core issues. God help the people who got married during that time period.

Online dating let's you pre-screen for basic compatibility before meeting (and confirming physical interest). It keeps you from making silly mistakes with people who can't make you happy long term.

[tthisk]

In my opinion going on a date is also too big of an investment to find out whether or not you 'match' with somebody. When you are at a party you can potentially speak to 10 (20 maybe even 30) women/men in one night, and probably find out that you do not match with 90% of them. If you are using apps like Tinder it will take you 10 nights to date 10 women/men, which is a significantly bigger time investment. Recently I was thinking about this figured out that this is probably the reason none of my friends, who actively use dating apps, have gained any significant relationships using them. This doesn't mean they are not good for anything. However people should be more aware of this and realise that though it seems easier to find meaningful relationships using these apps, it can also make it significantly harder.

[the_af]

I suppose it's a compromise. Using your example, a LOT of people simply don't enjoy going to parties with rooms full of people to try and talk to maybe 30 women/men in one night. Sometimes they find it boring, sometimes they get anxious, sometimes they find it intimidating and wouldn't know how to signal interest without being weird (parties can be confusing that way; most people aren't there to meet a date or hook up). Contrast it with Tinder and similar apps: while people sometimes pretend "a friend installed Tinder on my phone, I never use it!", everyone knows what everyone else is there for, and what they're signalling when they swipe right or start chatting with someone.

[morgtheborg]

Huh, I suppose it depends on what you're looking for. Getting in depth about politics, religion, attitudes towards rearing children, commitment to finding a partner, etc. doesn't tend to be appropriate at parties (since most people are there for a good time, not to find a partner), but they are perfectly appropriate online dating chats.

I don't find it hard to find attractive, fun people who want to date me. I find it hard to find a partner; online dating it takes me usually 2-4 months. IRL it can be years.