[pikzen]

>Your comment genuinely horrifies me. I presume you're saying you want people who don't comply to be put behind bars, for extended lengths of time. And their crime, that you insist is harming the rest us, is to not comply with a plan that the majority imposed on them. You've justified it in your mind by arguing that these people accepted a bargain, and are now not holding up their end of it.

If your desire is to go live in Libertopia, please do so. Renounce your citizenship. There's no justification in my mind, you have the choice. Unhappy with paying your taxes, or having to give away some of your money for the good of society? Then leave behind _everything_ this society has brought you. Let's see how you do. The amount of selfishness behind those comments is astounding. You are perfectly happy with reaping the benefits of said society, while not wanting to contribute back through the rules that have been established.

Yes, it's tyranny of the majority. Do you know why? Because it is the best system we have, for now. Do you want to live in a society where taxes are a thing of the past? Then educate. Educate your fellow man, try to make him understand why this is (according to you), a good thing. And maybe you'll convince him. And maybe you'll convince more. And maybe, one day, your grand-grandchild will live in such a world.

In the mean time, we have agreed upon these rules for decades, and since it hasn't changed, it seems like your ideology isn't what people want.

>When seemingly intelligent and articulate people so easily rationalize imprisoning their fellow man and woman, it's horrifying to witness.

I mean, if you want the punishment to be rubbing your face in the dirt until you understand _why_ things are the way they are and why this is better than your idea now, I'm down for it. But since the two things you seem to value are wealth and freedom, and you're not willing to give up your wealth when you have to be punished, we can only act on the latter.

[zeveb]

> I mean, if you want the punishment to be rubbing your face in the dirt until you understand _why_ things are the way they are and why this is better than your idea now, I'm down for it.

It's genuinely horrifying how much you seem to enjoy the thought of imprisoning or humiliating those who disagree with you. I suspect that this is a result of cognitive dissonance: you realise that you cannot rebut their arguments rationally, and thus wish to 'rebut' them physically, by appeals to the majority.

51% of the people can vote to piss in the cornflakes of the other 49%. That doesn't make it right.

[dang]

> It's genuinely horrifying how much you seem to enjoy the thought of

This breaks the HN guidelines by crossing into incivility. Please don't do that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

[pikzen]

>It's genuinely horrifying how much you seem to enjoy the thought of imprisoning or humiliating those who disagree with you.

It's genuinely hilarious how much you seem to take everything at face value. Better keep my gulag jokes then. To be completely fair, ideally, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. If we could have a perfectly functioning society, where everyone understands the value of collaborating, I would not want to have to do that. I really don't.

Unfortunately, privation of freedom, is in 99% of the cases the only thing that works with this kind of people. You could try explaining, in depth, the value of contributing to a greater purpose than just amassing wealth for you and your family, but in the end, you're very likely to just end up facing a brick wall. The choices are either waiting until they leave your society (which they won't, because they enjoy the benefits it brings while still wanting to not contribute), or making them respect the rules.

> I suspect that this is a result of cognitive dissonance: you realise that you cannot rebut their arguments rationally, and thus wish to 'rebut' them physically, by appeals to the majority.

I could suspect you're full of shit, but that doesn't get us very far. You seem to be believing that only your (or their) arguments are rational. Mine, however, are not because... it goes against your view of the world, I guess ?

>51% of the people can vote to piss in the cornflakes of the other 49%. That doesn't make it right.

Since you want to start making parallels, let's take these at face value too then. This implies that:

a) Only a 51% percent majority wishes our society to be this way. Which is blatantly false. b) You are part of this enlightened 49%. And dear God, if that isn't the mother of all cognitive dissonances.

When it comes to this subject, you are a minority. You are a blip on the radar. Worse yet, this is nefarious and actively harming society.

I impatiently await the inevitable "So it is okay to harm minorities as long as the majority wants it? What about slavery?" argument, which can be so easily refuted that it's not even fun.

I also impatiently await the "but rules are not fair right now, look at imprisonment of black people in the US" argument, which is already answered by the previous "Fix your damn system, don't burn it down" answer. Yes, it isn't fair. Yet people fought for things before. People fought against laws that were unjust. And when they were truly unjust, these people usually won. Do the same thing with your convictions. Maybe in fifteen years, you'll have won.

[Jabanga]

There's nothing funny about Gulags, and frankly I don't think you were joking, as the actual policy you endorse is to imprison those who don't comply.

[dang]

> If your desire is to go live in Libertopia, please do so. Renounce your citizenship.

Political swipe tropes like this have no place here. We ban accounts that make a habit of political/ideological flamewar, so please don't post like this, regardless of how bad any other comment may be (or feel).

[Jabanga]

>If your desire is to go live in Libertopia, please do so. Renounce your citizenship. There's no justification in my mind, you have the choice.

That's like saying someone unhappy with having Sharia Law imposed on them should renounce their citizenship and live in Infideltopia. And as long as they stay, they are accepting Sharia Law, and should not complain about having their media censored, their private actions controlled, and their religious beliefs mandated.

>Then leave behind _everything_ this society has brought you. Let's see how you do. The amount of selfishness behind those comments is astounding. You are perfectly happy with reaping the benefits of said society, while not wanting to contribute back through the rules that have been established.

You're assuming that the positive aspects of our society are due to the income tax and the massive government programs that have been put in place. There is a lot of statistical evidence suggesting otherwise.

I would be perfectly fine not being covered by welfare and free healthcare guarantees in exchange for not paying taxes on private transactions. The problem is you don't want to give me that option.

There's no moral justification to deny people an option. The fact is you call me selfish, but it's you who advocates imprisoning individuals to advance your agenda for society, which is not a mutually agreed one. It's one that is imposed on a significant subset of the population.

>Yes, it's tyranny of the majority. Do you know why? Because it is the best system we have, for now.

It's not the best system we have.. There is absolutely no proof for your statement and plenty of evidence against it.

>In the mean time, we have agreed upon these rules for decades, and since it hasn't changed, it seems like your ideology isn't what people want.

We haven't all agreed to it..

>I mean, if you want the punishment to be rubbing your face in the dirt until you understand _why_ things are the way they are and why this is better than your idea now, I'm down for it.

Imprisoning someone doesn't help them understand why things are the way they are and why this is better.

Like I said, how quickly people rationalize locking up nonviolent individuals, when it helps them advance their agenda, is horrifying to witness.

>But since the two things you seem to value are wealth and freedom, and you're not willing to give up your wealth when you have to be punished, we can only act on the latter.

No one has to be punished. You want to punish people for not obeying other people. This is a conscious act that diminishes rights, and you have abandoned all moral considerations because it's not convenient to your agenda.