[Veratyr]

> As I listed above there are at least 100+ more companies supporting H.265 than AoM.

AV1 isn't finalized yet. Of course HEVC is being shipped in more stuff, it's being shipped at all. I'm not debating this, there's no debate. At present HEVC has more support than a codec that isn't yet finished. H.264 had more support when VP9 was being developed too, that doesn't make VP9 inferior to H.264.

> broadcast standard for terrestrial TV which is still hugely popular in many countries

Broadcast TV is a different world to the web and has very different concerns.

> Also without Apple it's over. YouTube and Netflix will be forced to support H.265 or give up on iOS/OSX users (350 million users).

This is demonstrably not true as YouTube and Netflix both currently and successfully utilize VP9, which Apple doesn't support. Apple users just get the inferior H.264 codec.

The question is really whether the browser and other OS vendors are going to start supporting HEVC and given the current patent situation, that seems impossible, so we're going to end up in a fragmented world where for web streaming, most users get AV1 while Apple users and anyone else who doesn't support AV1 gets H.264.

[abritinthebay]

> AV1 isn't finalized yet.

You keep saying that as if it solves anything.

Released > Unreleased.

Is that a criticism of the format's potential? No! But it may as well not exist until it is finalized... so it can't be a competitor to a format that has been.

[Veratyr]

> VP9 and AV1 are simply inferior codecs to H.265 in almost every way.

This was your claim.

Let me sum up the entirety of my position so we're on the same page:

- In terms of compression, AV1 is competitive with or beats HEVC, despite not being finalized.

- AV1 has support from everyone but of import save Apple when it comes to the web.

- Apple's support is not necessary for a codec to be successful (see VP9).

- AV1 is not finalized. There's more work to do. Particularly, I don't expect the present encoder/decoder implementations to be competitive with the HEVC encoders when it comes to CPU efficiency.

- HEVC has solid adoption in some areas (the more "traditional" areas like video cameras, TVs, broadcast) but has zero adoption when it comes to the web and this is extremely unlikely to change due to the patent mess.

- As members of the AoM, it's near certain that Microsoft, Google and Mozilla will add AV1 support to their browsers, which, depending on the particular source you look at, cover roughly 70% of the total browser market.

- Due to AoM support and HEVC not being an option, AV1 will be the primary successor to H.264/VP9 on the web.

- Due to its likely widespread availability from streaming services on the web and support from hardware vendors, AV1 will be prolific in other kinds of hardware.

- Due to the support of Apple and the broadcast industry, HEVC will likely not go away anytime soon.

- I agree that HEVC is not currently a viable alternative to HEVC, it not being finalized yet and all, however despite that, there are already aspects in which it is already superior, namely compression and likelihood of being supported on the web.

[Dylan16807]

If it doesn't exist, then it can't have poor vendor support.

It will have good vendor support when it exists.